Finding Joy in Everyday Experiences with Courtney Alesandro

In Episode 5, Carrie and Courtney discuss the importance of taking risks and following your instincts. They share personal stories of times when they followed their intuition and made decisions that led to fulfilling experiences. They emphasize that there are no rules in life and that it's okay to say no to things that aren't for you. They encourage listeners to embrace new experiences, even if they don't go as planned, and to remember that a rich and exciting life can be found in the small moments. In this conversation, Carrie and Courtney discuss the importance of living a meaningful life and finding joy in everyday experiences. They explore the idea that life doesn't have to be filled with big adventures to be fulfilling, and that even small, playful moments can bring happiness. Courtney shares her experience working in palliative care and how it has shaped her perspective on life and death. They also touch on the concept of contemplative medicine and the importance of embracing new experiences and not being afraid to try new things.

If you have a question for next week's Who Asked Me segment, or if you have a story you'd like to tell, send me an email at carrie.always.talking@gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you.

Facebook group- www.facebook.com/groups/carriesalwaystalking/

Transcript

Carrie McNulty (00:14)

Hello, this is episode five of Carrie's Always Talking. I'm your host Carrie McNulty, and this is a podcast all about stories and connection. I believe that people telling and sharing their stories is one of the main ways that we connect with one another, one of the main ways that we build empathy and humanity, and that's something that we could all use a little bit more of in the world today. Today is exciting because I actually have a guest with me. I have one of my closest friends.

Her name is Courtney Alesandro and she is a certified nurse practitioner. She's board certified in palliative care and she also has her master's degree from Columbia in bioethics. So she is an accomplished person but also a really fun and interesting person to talk to. And today we're going to kind of cover the theme of this being the one life that you have and.

that it's kind of okay to quit something that isn't right for you. And then when something really does work well for you, she talks about finding that in her current career in palliative care. So I think it's a really fun, interesting interview. And as I said, she's one of my best friends. So how could I not enjoy talking to her? And I hope you all enjoy hearing some of her stories and kind of what she has to share today. A few housekeeping things I'm gonna do at the front of the episode because I'm just gonna end it after our interview.

to anybody who's listening and sharing, thank you so much. I'm going to ask if you could to rate the podcast on, Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you're listening into maybe write a review. If you really like what you're hearing, cause that's one of the ways that it gets noticed. you can also reach out to me to ask any questions or leave comments. There's a text feature that I'm going to put in the show notes where you can text me directly, with any comments or questions and also share my email address and also the

So without any more waiting, we're gonna go ahead and get into the next segment, which is the interview with Courtney.

Carrie McNulty (02:17)

Hi Courtney. Thank you for coming on. really excited.

Courtney L Alesandro (02:18)

Hey, Carrie.

for having me. This is so much fun.

Carrie McNulty (02:25)

Yeah, it should be. We'll see. But we do have a good time. And I'm hoping that other people will like hearing the both of us talking instead of just me talking. I'm hoping that people are gonna be into that. Yeah. I mean, I always say that you are a very interesting person and I always say that you have gotten me to be a little bit more flexible.

Courtney L Alesandro (02:28)

Well, talking to you is always fun, so we do.

I hope so too.

Carrie McNulty (02:50)

and willing to take some chances on things. And we're gonna talk a little bit today about risk and level of risk. also what it's like when something is not for you, when you know it's not for you, and what it's like to be able to say no to things that really aren't for you, right? That there's a freedom in

Courtney L Alesandro (03:11)

I think being able to say no is a wonderful thing.

Carrie McNulty (03:13)

Yeah, yeah, it's a necessary thing. Yeah. But so I already in the intro kind of explained a little bit about your credentials and some of the things that I love about you. So, you know, I was wondering if you could. So tell me, give me an example of a time in your life where you were like, you got that feeling that you get that you're like, I need to do this thing.

Courtney L Alesandro (03:18)

That's a necessary thing.

Carrie McNulty (03:41)

I don't know why, I just gotta do this random thing. Give me a little story, give us a little story about a time where you got a nudge to do something out of nowhere and it ended up turning out really good.

Courtney L Alesandro (03:54)

So I knew we were going to be talking about this. So I've given a lot of thought over the last couple of days to a life review to a certain extent.

I think I'd like to share sort of two examples. One, which is, well, when I started my life out and certainly my academic life, which was not illustrious, I assure you, I was in anthropology, I did art, I was that direction, know, sort of creative, certainly not science oriented.

Carrie McNulty (04:34)

Mm.

Courtney L Alesandro (04:40)

And I was living in San Francisco after doing four years of college that didn't result in a degree, but it was four years. I put four years in. And one day I just decided, you know, confidently, hands on hips, I'm going to be a nurse. And I remember my whole family was like, okay, a nurse. Interesting. And I was like, I've got to take chemistry. We're like, hmm.

Carrie McNulty (04:48)

Hehehehehe

Courtney L Alesandro (05:11)

I was like, sure, how hard could it be? I'll do some chemistry. anyway, whatever gave me that impetus has resulted in a career that, you know, 25 years later, I couldn't be any more satisfied with. And it is an absolute gem of a fit for me.

And I just trusted whatever part of my body said, or my psyche certainly wasn't my body, my body's completely irrelevant to these choices, that I was going to be a nurse and that was going to be my life. Around the same time, I also

Carrie McNulty (05:48)

you

Courtney L Alesandro (06:09)

an idea that I was, so as I said, I was living in San Francisco at that time. I thought, I really want to move to New Mexico. I really want to move to Taos. And that's what I'm going to do. So I sold all my belongings. They weren't plentiful, but they were mine. I sold all my belongings. I remember my brother bought me a tent.

And he was just like, I don't know what you're going to do, but here's a tent. because I guess I had assumed I was going to be camping. if, right, if you know me, you know that's a ridiculous idea. It's a ridiculous idea. I don't poop in holes. I just, yeah, like basic comforts. know, it just, the idea of me setting up a tent is,

Carrie McNulty (06:50)

Yes.

Well, mean, other things, right? We like our basic comforts are very important. Yeah, yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (07:06)

horrifying. But I remember that night at my going away party being like, my gosh, what the heck? I'm not going to go camp in the mountains. What are you crazy? Why didn't anybody talk me out of this? And I opted not to go down that path at the final moment. It had obvious ramifications and that I had

find another apartment and buy all my stuff back. But both of those were just examples

You get a feeling that your life needs to be different or you need to go in a certain direction. And sometimes it sticks and sometimes, you know, clarity, you say, no, this is not who I am fundamentally. And it's okay at the final moment to say, thanks for

Carrie McNulty (08:07)

You're buying a tent and living in the desert.

Courtney L Alesandro (08:18)

going away party guys, I'm not going anywhere. What, crazy? I'm not doing this. Why? This is a terrible idea. But as I'm sure was pointed out to be many of my ideas on paper maybe seem terrible.

Carrie McNulty (08:23)

Why were you supporting me in this, everyone?

I mean, I think you bring up two good points that at the same time in your life, you got this internal nudge that you needed to do something. And this is not like a new thing for you. It could be something as big as I'm gonna move to New Mexico without a plan and maybe live in a tent or I'm going to, or today's the day I'm gonna go find my new dog. Are you ready to go? Let's go and find my dog, right? Like getting that kind of nudge and being like, here's what we're doing today.

Courtney L Alesandro (09:01)

out.

Carrie McNulty (09:05)

And it doesn't have to be this grand plan necessarily, but you always seem to be driven by this internal thing of like, here's what's gonna happen next, and then you just do it. And maybe you do something one time, or maybe like being a nurse, it's something that sticks with you lifelong through your career. But you really seem all about like, what's the next experience I'm gonna have in this life?

Courtney L Alesandro (09:30)

Yes, and I think if I could encourage

to, how do I want to phrase this? You can do anything you want to do, right? And it does, that's not necessarily like a big, you can go be the CEO of a company or you could go climb Mount Everest or you could go do none of that nonsense. Because I'm not that ambitious and I'm a fearful person. I'm not gonna risk life and limb over

I won't even go on a snowmobile. But like there are no rules, right? As long as you keep a moral compass, obviously. Yeah, we're not endorsing crime. We're not endorsing being a jerk.

Carrie McNulty (10:12)

I'm out.

Mm

Right, right, right. We're not endorsing crime.

Courtney L Alesandro (10:30)

The thing is, this is all made up, right? Our lives are just made up. And so if you get a hankering to do something, try it. If it doesn't work, if you get a good story out of it, then you can just say, no, this wasn't for me. And you move on. You're not a failure, you're not...

Carrie McNulty (10:35)

A milk.

A million percent.

Yes. Yes.

Courtney L Alesandro (11:01)

somehow unstable. You're just trying new things.

Carrie McNulty (11:04)

Right. Right. Right. I think not only can people see us from an outside perspective, not just you and me, but us as a general whole of like, well, this is something this person would do and wouldn't do. And then we feel stuck following those same guidelines. I do this all the time where I forget that it's like, no, actually you can do whatever you want to do, you know, just because this isn't something you've ever done before, or even if you don't do it well, or it doesn't matter.

It doesn't really matter, right?

Courtney L Alesandro (11:35)

It doesn't matter. If I had a life motto, that's it. It just doesn't matter. It just don't

Carrie McNulty (11:43)

It's, it's not, it's really not that deep. It doesn't really matter. know, again, not endorsing anything that gets anybody in trouble. Just got to say that part of me that's just got to put that out there again, but so much pressure we put on ourselves and it takes away from the fun and interesting things that we can experience. And like you said, even if it goes horribly wrong, we both know there's nothing you and I both love more than a, than a story, you know?

If it goes terrible, that's a great story for later. You know, and eventually it'll become funny. Whatever, you know?

Courtney L Alesandro (12:16)

It makes you a good dinner companion, right? Like that's the worst that's gonna happen.

Again, think one of the things I think we get stuck into, or at least I certainly have felt the pressure and beat myself up over it, is that an exciting life or rich life is one where you're achieving or that you're traveling a lot. My brother is somebody

Carrie McNulty (12:31)

Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (12:55)

who travels a lot and it gives him such joy and richness to his life. I have no interest. It sounds exhausting and anxiety producing to me.

And if I'm not that person, that doesn't mean that I'm just some dullard sitting somewhere. There's experiences every single day and you could do whatever

Carrie McNulty (13:32)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's so true. And I just wanna give some examples of the things that Courtney has done that I have known in my lifetime and I've known her since 2011. So we'll just give that time once. So some things that she's done that, know, just gotten the idea that she's wanted to do and so she's done it is, you know.

So she has a phrase that she'll say, I'm turning the ship around. And when you say that, like, I know that that means that there's something coming up, that there's a plan that's been made of some sort. And it might've been five minutes ago, or it might've been five days ago, but there's a plan that's been made and this is what we're going to do. and so it could be like the day we decided you were going to get bacon, which is the dog that, you know, I had mentioned earlier that was like, you know, Courtney, you had lost Edgar.

And then you got to the point where you're ready for another dog and you're like, today's our day. So we walked into the animal rescue league here and walked through, took each went down the aisles on separate sides, went down and back, and then came back to the front to reconvene. And, you know, right away you looked at me and I looked at you and you're like, it's got to be bacon. And I was

there's no other choice. Like, you know, it's like just a decision that's made and you did it. And then it ended up being a great thing, like a great choice because she was a great girl. Yeah. She ended up being.

Courtney L Alesandro (14:53)

Right? And do you remember how we had to fight for her because she got maligned in as a dog that didn't like cats. And at the time I had a cat and we had to, we had to stay with it. And it turned out she, she actually loved cats. She just got no problem. She had no beef with anything.

Carrie McNulty (15:01)

Yes!

Yeah, she didn't have a problem with anything. was... No, she was pretty easy -going girl. And mind you, she was probably like a what, 70

Courtney L Alesandro (15:21)

at least when I've... she was a thick girl.

Carrie McNulty (15:21)

At least I'm not being generous. Yeah, pit bull, but the best, the best girl, the best girl. So, you know, it's decisions like that, or we decided we would take a glass blowing class.

Courtney L Alesandro (15:38)

Right? I guess the glass blowing class is a great example of, you know, we did it. We never have to do it again. And it also stresses the point of you can do anything. People, if you pay money, people will allow you to do amazing things. One of which was put us in a room with molten glass and led us to our own devices.

Carrie McNulty (15:43)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

No.

Mm -hmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (16:07)

That's terrible idea.

Carrie McNulty (16:08)

terrible idea, especially given my history of dropping things. Thankfully nobody got hurt, but it just, wasn't for us. And, but it was fun and it was an experience, you know, Courtney wasn't with me on this, but she supported me in my theta healing three day weekend class that I went to and then talked to me every night and we laughed and we had, you know, like there's many things I wouldn't have done that I did because Courtney's free spirit will say rubbed off on me.

Courtney L Alesandro (16:15)

No.

Carrie McNulty (16:36)

Like you really are a free spirit. might, you and I are both risk averse in the way that we're not gonna, bodily harm is not something I'm willing to risk. But I'm brave enough to take a glass class, you know, or that kind of thing. And that's your support to be like, why not?

Courtney L Alesandro (16:52)

I'm

not? If you're not afraid of embarrassing yourself, there is a world out there that you can experience.

Carrie McNulty (17:06)

Well, another thought just came to mind is when you did the dinner theater.

Courtney L Alesandro (17:10)

Speaking of willing to embarrass myself, yes. Yes. I got it in my head that I wanted to be on stage again. Now mind you, being on stage again is when I was a teenager, I did summer theater at the local high school. So it's not like I was doing Shakespeare in the park. Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (17:20)

Mm -mm.

You didn't have an... Yeah, you weren't off Broadway, do it rent or something like that. Yeah, yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (17:39)

out, but I looked into it and I found this dinner theater group that was needing people. And I got to play, I think her name was Trudy, but I remember she was the murderer. And how fun.

Carrie McNulty (17:49)

Hmm?

You went all out, you went to the Kmart when we still had a Kmart and basically stole an alf, not stole it, but saw what the mannequin was wearing and decided that needed to be yours and it was covered in fringe and you know, it was perfect. It was just perfect for the role. You really got into

Courtney L Alesandro (18:05)

Yeah.

Yep, yep. The costume budget for dinner theater in the Pittsburgh area is whatever you afford and are willing to buy. So that's why we went there. And yeah, you know, it's so lucky that I have good people in my life who are willing to go. So it's like, you guys can come. It's not gonna be the best meal you've ever had in your entire life.

Carrie McNulty (18:43)

I wasn't missing it for anything in the world though.

Courtney L Alesandro (18:43)

no, no, but, but then after that, the, the troop had asked me to stay on that. I was like, and that was my time to say, no, I did this once. I feel, I feel like I got the itch out of me and I wish you the best of

Carrie McNulty (18:52)

You

I did it.

I'm never gonna do it again. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. But what's amazing is you really went out on top. You know, we talked about this. You did one, you brought the house down and you called it quits. You weren't, you couldn't top it. That's how I, yeah. Even at local dinner theater. You see what we're saying? It doesn't have to be this grand thing that you're doing, right? You don't have to, you know.

Courtney L Alesandro (19:08)

Never again.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Always keep them wanting more.

not have to be Kilimanjaro.

Carrie McNulty (19:33)

Change happens on a very small level. This is our message. You don't have to set the world on fire. But if you get an inkling to do dinner theater, do it. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (19:46)

Exactly. think that's, you know, it's such a simple, humble message, but it goes contrary to so many messages that we receive about

Carrie McNulty (19:59)

Mm

Courtney L Alesandro (20:02)

What is valid? What is an adventure? What is, you know, an exciting life?

Carrie McNulty (20:03)

Mm -hmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (20:11)

And if you think about that message that we get, it's a very narrow life that they're talking about. It involves being in your 20s and living in a van.

Carrie McNulty (20:16)

Mm -hmm. yeah. Yeah.

Yes, exactly, exactly. I mean, how many people do we see on TikTok and I follow them all where these younger women live in vans and drive around and I think I would hate this, but I'm certainly interested in watching somebody do it. Yeah, yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (20:33)

Yeah.

Exactly. But if we have this narrow idea that this is what having an exciting life is, then you're going to age out of it, certainly. And if it was never for you, yeah, right.

Carrie McNulty (20:45)

That's

Mm -hmm.

It'd be miserable, absolutely miserable. Right. I think you're definitely onto this idea that in order for it to be a meaningful life, it has to be full of big, big adventures one right after another. And it really doesn't. But if you throw in some things to make it a little bit, to give it a little bit of a spice, know, a little bit of a, I've done this thing, like I've never podcasted before and I'm doing this and my old brain is learning something new and that's good for me. And it's, it's fun, right? Like it's

I'm not white water rafting as we do this.

Courtney L Alesandro (21:26)

Right. And it's still rich. It's still fun. It's still silly. Not necessarily all the topics aren't silly, but like it has a playfulness to it. Maybe not silly, but it has a playfulness to it.

Carrie McNulty (21:35)

No.

Well, right on and to that, you are somebody in my life who yes, ands all my bullshit. So of course, when I was like, who am I first going to have on? I'm like, it's Courtney. is because she's she's going to be right there with me. Whatever we want to talk about, whatever you're like, yeah, let's do it. You know, why not? And it's been it's been a gift in my life. Kind of switching

Courtney L Alesandro (21:49)

Yeah,

Carrie McNulty (22:07)

our careers and how we met and then where you've ended up now, I think is interesting too, especially in the context of what somebody can experience throughout their whole life or what, when they get to a certain point in their life where they're no longer going to be here with us, what they might be thinking and feeling about their experiences, you know, in the role that you have now. But when you and I met, we met working at an eating disorder clinic where we both just sort of happened into these jobs.

And I think of it as like one of the best times in my career because it was the most fun, know, like having that group of people at that time was really special.

Courtney L Alesandro (22:47)

I agree, that was lightning in a bottle. It was such a good group of women who were always so supportive of each other and all on our own adventure.

Carrie McNulty (22:50)

Hahaha

Mm

Yes. Yeah, was definitely a special time. And we were working with a population that I still work with. It can be really heavy work at times. And so having that kind of support. And at times, it could be life or death for people, working and eating disorders very much. So we were able to create this safe environment for everybody to be together and work together and have friendships and whatever.

I think something really special, at least from my point of view, happened with Courtney and I, and that we're still so close, you know, and you don't even live in the city anymore. It was a great time. Sometimes I miss that group and that feeling of being a part of a collective of women. Yeah. Yeah. But now you're doing something totally

Courtney L Alesandro (23:46)

Yes, we were a collective of women.

Carrie McNulty (23:54)

different in a lot of ways. what, first of all, I've said, we've said that you work in palliative care, but can you explain to people what that is? Because, or what was your experience of coming into this from eating disorders? Tell me that too.

Courtney L Alesandro (23:55)

Yeah, yeah.

Well, well, I suppose I could define palliative care. Yeah. By the, the way I got into it. So I had moved out of Pittsburgh to a town in Virginia called Fredericksburg. And I didn't work for, I don't know, three or four months. as I was getting settled and eventually it came down to, I needed to get a

So there was a local hospital here and I was like, well, I'll go to a job fair with my resume and I will probably get some nurse practitioner job in psych because that's kind of where I was and that's what I did. And so, you I show up, do my little spiel, talk to a few people.

Carrie McNulty (24:54)

What you know.

Courtney L Alesandro (25:04)

and come to find out they were recruiting heavily for a program that they were re -initiating. And it was the palliative care program inpatient. And they really wanted me to look into that. And sort of keeping an open mind and an open spirit about things, I was like, sure.

Carrie McNulty (25:28)

Mm -hmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (25:32)

sign me up for an interview, let's do this. What is it? I have no idea. And what it is, is it's a, it is a specialty that is multidisciplinary. So on a good palliative team, there's usually a doc, a nurse practitioner.

a social worker and a chaplain. And we care for patients, and specifically I was inpatient. So we care for people inpatient who are going through a serious illness and an illness that might take their life, that's likely going to take their life. And we provide symptom management, but also

discussing goals of care. What does somebody want from their lives? And so that requires a lot of tender conversations and a lot of reflection on what are my values? What do I want? Who am I? A lot of these conversations are taking place with elderly people who

don't have the language that we have, right? And younger people will even have more expressive language than we have. So really sitting with folks and trying to get them to reflect on what's important to them. And then we design a plan of care, a medical plan of care around their goals. So that's what it is.

Carrie McNulty (27:08)

Mm

Courtney L Alesandro (27:30)

lot of times I get to be with people at their death. Palliative care is not hospice.

Carrie McNulty (27:38)

Yes, that was just so I was gonna say. So it's different than hospice, but it could be looked at as a step possibly before for some people if that's what they choose.

Courtney L Alesandro (27:46)

It's a step before, I often tell people, think of palliative care as a consultative service and hospice as a plan of care. A hospice team is an entire team of people who work together to provide support at the end of somebody's life. Palliative care, I can meet somebody five years before.

the end of their life. I can meet them 10 years before the end of their life at the start of a new diagnosis. And it's a consultative service that works with all the other professionals that they have in their third care.

Carrie McNulty (28:28)

Okay.

And so you do though end up being with some people at the end of their life. And what has that been like for you since, know, yes, there were times working in eating disorders where you would be doing what we would call quality of life with people if they were at the point where they weren't choosing any more treatment or treatment wasn't working for them over a long period of time. How is this different? Because you're still having to have some of these harder conversations and especially with family members, right? So in that sense, those skills have definitely translated for you

jobs but what's it like to actually be with people who are at the end of their experience on this planet and then what are some things that you take away from that given your philosophy and what we've already talked about of like you can have life experiences that are rich that don't have to be super risk -taking and that kind of thing like what experiences do you learn about or take away from what you're doing now with people

Courtney L Alesandro (29:23)

So if I had to reflect on what it's like to be with somebody at the end of their life, it is incredibly special. Like that aspect is incredibly intimate and special and I'm forever grateful that I get to be with people at that time in their life.

Carrie McNulty (29:29)

Mm -hmm. Mm.

Courtney L Alesandro (29:53)

It has really solidified for me that, I know this is gonna be shocking news to everybody, but everybody dies. I know. Everybody dies. It's not a moral failure. It's not because you were weak in some way. You will die. And...

Carrie McNulty (30:03)

What?

Thank you.

Courtney L Alesandro (30:23)

from my personal philosophy, which I didn't really know that I had a personal philosophy about this till we really started talking about it more in depth over the last week or so. But it's certainly...

has made me more steadfast in my belief that have fun. This is gonna come to an end. This absolutely will end for you.

Carrie McNulty (30:55)

Mm -hmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (31:04)

in conversations that I've had with people at the end of their life.

I can't think off the top of my head of anybody who did anything so remarkable, so grand, so Instagram worthy, that that's what they're reflecting on at the end of their life. Everyone is thinking just about the people that they knew and the connections that they made. And whatever those are for people.

Carrie McNulty (31:24)

Hahaha

you

Yes.

Courtney L Alesandro (31:40)

And however, people experience those connections, which can be innumerable. And so people reflect in these innumerable ways. But.

gosh, this is all gonna come to an end. it's, is, the life we've been given is the most serious thing, but also the least serious thing. It is irrelevant. You know, by irrelevant, I mean, I think

Well, I don't think anybody who's listening to this knows this, but you certainly do. I love history and, you know, give me a good Bronze Age story and I'm down with it. And one of the things I think about when I'm thinking about history or, you know, bog mummies is like people lived, people lived, they had joys, they had experiences, they had everything that we have.

Carrie McNulty (32:29)

Mm -hmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (32:53)

in this moment. They didn't necessarily change the world, but it was completely valid and it's completely over.

Carrie McNulty (33:00)

Yes. Yes, yes. And we may never know more about them than what we see in a book if something that showed up in a book was worthy of being recorded in history. But everybody had full lives with experiences and people they loved and things that they did, and best friends and all that stuff. so.

And you're right, the thing that we will all have in common is that we too will eventually not be here. And it will be a similar thing for the generations looking back at us somewhere in the future. So yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (33:37)

And it's okay not to have a statue after you, right? Like it's okay, you've had a good enjoyable life no matter what, as long as you stay open and find enjoyment in it.

Carrie McNulty (33:45)

Yes.

Yeah, and where you can. I think it was in my second episode, I talked just about finding the things that go right in your day, even if they're small, and making experiences out of those, because not every day is gonna be Instagram worthy, as you said.

Courtney L Alesandro (34:10)

No. Some days you get to work and realize you put your shirt on backwards. You know, it happens. It's okay. It's okay. But, and as long as we're talking about this, I suppose a podcast is the right place for me to say, would you just throw my body in a peat bog? I really would like to go as a bog mummy. I think that would

Carrie McNulty (34:15)

No? Yeah, it's life. Yeah, it's okay.

we're going to have to do a lot of like paperwork so that I don't get charged with, you know, disposing of your body in an appropriate way. Yeah. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (34:40)

Yeah. yeah. Yeah. I put something mysterious in my hands. So when I'm found a thousand years from now, like people try and make an entire storyline around it. Yeah, that would be great.

Carrie McNulty (34:51)

yeah. I really have to think on what we're gonna put in your hand just so that it can be an interesting story for somebody in the future. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (34:59)

Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (35:03)

Yeah, for me, I definitely don't want to be buried. anything else, know, cremated, whatever.

Courtney L Alesandro (35:16)

Yeah,

I guess I feel like once I'm gone, I'm gone. can do whatever you'd like

Carrie McNulty (35:20)

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you know, people are going to be like, why are they talking about this? But you have to, I mean, it goes along with the theme everyone, you know, to be thinking about the fact that eventually this does come to an end and what do you want to experience in the time that you're here? And, you know, Courtney gets this unique perspective of having had her rich life of things that she has experienced, you know, and some that she did things once and some things that stuck and now she gets to be with people at the end and they're talking about what matters. And so she gets to hear their perspective.

Courtney L Alesandro (35:29)

Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (35:58)

which is really interesting, I think. And you did something recently, was it contemplative medicine?

Courtney L Alesandro (36:06)

Yeah, I did a year long contemplative fellowship. And it was contemplative medicine fellowship through the Zen Center in New York City. And it was a great experience.

You know, we've obviously taken a turn to death and dying. One of the themes of the program was, yeah, this is going to come to an end. You are going to die. We did a chant at the end of every class that reflected on, you

the days of your life are decreased by one. You know, and it's a hard message to sit with. You know, definitely you think, you guys don't get invited to many cocktail parties, do you? Yeah, jeez. Yeah, because my hands are sweating now.

Carrie McNulty (37:07)

Right, you're going heavy here today, huh? Yeah. Are you wanting me to count down by the minute as well? what?

Courtney L Alesandro (37:23)

It certainly does bring into the forefront of your thoughts that, yeah, this is this one precious moment and, you know,

Carrie McNulty (37:35)

Mm

Courtney L Alesandro (37:40)

Let's live it. Whatever it looks like, right? as we've, one of the things I'm afraid of are Ferris wheels. I won't go on a Ferris wheel. Like, when I'm talking, like, I don't have a thrill -seeking gene in my body. I mean, I don't like Ferris wheels. Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (37:41)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, you're that adverse, but you will take a Japanese floral arrangement class. Yeah. that's right.

Courtney L Alesandro (38:00)

not a class, a job. It was a job. I got paid for that. I somehow had convinced this woman who is like an Ikebana master that I could be her apprentice. And so I did that for a period of time. I got to go to Robin Williams' home and

Carrie McNulty (38:30)

That's amazing.

Courtney L Alesandro (38:31)

design Ikebana. But as you do, you know, because that's what I'm, you know, us from upstate New York, we're all about the Ikebana. So, but then as part of her reality and how she saw her role as my, my master, I suppose, and me as her apprentice, she spanked me. And I thought, well,

Carrie McNulty (38:34)

As you do, as you do, yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Hahaha!

Courtney L Alesandro (39:02)

This is nuts.

Carrie McNulty (39:02)

I must have made a mistake somewhere.

Courtney L Alesandro (39:06)

Did I need to be spanked? Because that feels weird. That just feels like, I mean, I get where you're coming from, but maybe this isn't a great fit. So I quit.

Carrie McNulty (39:18)

Yeah, so I've reconsidered. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (39:20)

reconsidered that maybe a life as an Ikebana master wasn't really for me.

Carrie McNulty (39:29)

Again,

Courtney L Alesandro (39:31)

It's okay to quit things and I can do a mean floral arrangement still.

Carrie McNulty (39:35)

No doubt. See, are just, these are the kind of things, you know, that you could, you don't have to learn how to do Japanese full -ore wangers, but if you want to, you could. That's the point.

Courtney L Alesandro (39:46)

Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (39:50)

Well, are there any words that you want to leave us with today? The sort of, hey, is the theme like you only have this one life? Do some interesting things.

What do you want to leave us with?

Courtney L Alesandro (40:04)

I would like to leave.

And again, our disclaimer, don't be a psychopath, don't be amoral, don't be a jerk. But it doesn't matter. It's so many things.

Carrie McNulty (40:11)

No, no.

you

Courtney L Alesandro (40:26)

just don't matter. It doesn't matter if you embarrass yourself. It doesn't matter if you're not good at something. If it, it just doesn't matter. You'd be surprised what people will allow you to do if you sign up.

It'll let you do anything.

Carrie McNulty (40:49)

I feel like that might even be the title of this episode. You'll be surprised what you'll be allowed to do if you just sign up. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (40:57)

just sign up and he just, and there is no one right way. Can't stress that enough and.

Carrie McNulty (41:07)

Mm -hmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (41:11)

You don't have to have a narrow sense of yourself. Just do it, just go. It's okay. No harm, no foul. Just try

Carrie McNulty (41:18)

Yeah.

Yeah, let the lines get a little blurry. You don't have to be... Yeah, I love

Courtney L Alesandro (41:25)

lines get little blurry.

You might be out 50 bucks, whatever, you fine.

Carrie McNulty (41:31)

But you're up one good story.

Courtney L Alesandro (41:33)

You're up one good story.

and at the end of your life, I think having stories is a good thing.

Carrie McNulty (41:49)

Definitely. couldn't agree more. Well, I loved having you. I might ask you to come again because you're really fun to talk to. that's the important part. I guess I'm missing, right? This was us on our best behavior. think.

Courtney L Alesandro (42:00)

don't know what else we could possibly talk about. That's fit for public consumption.

This is, there was no swearing at all.

Carrie McNulty (42:15)

Minimal if at any, minimal, minimal if at any. All right, well everyone, that's all we have for this week. Thank you so much to Courtney for joining us and I will see you all next week. Until then, be well.

Courtney L Alesandro (42:16)

Minimal. Okay, minimal.