Getting Back to Baseline: A Story About Mental Health and Wellness with Paul Fields

It's episode 9 of Carrie's Always Talking! In this episode, Carrie chats with her friend and past improv teammate, Paul Fields, who graciously shares his experience with depression and his journey towards recovery. They discuss the importance of speaking up and seeking help, as well as the challenges of dealing with mental health issues. Paul emphasizes the need to find one's baseline and maintain it, while also recognizing the negative thought patterns and reframing them. He discusses what interventions worked well for him and how he's been able to support those in his life who are also being more open about their mental health challenges. There is some discussion around the topic of suicide in this episode as Paul is sharing openly and honestly about the challenges he's faced in living with depression. While there are no explicit details shared about his experience, it still may be challenging to listen to if you've been touched by any attempts in your life. The take away message is one of hope, consistency, and continued growth. 

Resources for MH support:
In Pennsylvania, you can text 988 to reach the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, which is available 24/7 at no cost. You can also call or chat with 988. Counselors can provide therapeutic interventions, referrals, and activate mobile mental health crisis teams. 

Crisis Text Line- Text 741741 to reach this line, which is available 24/7. You can use it for stress about school, work, family, or housing, or for other crises that aren't life-threatening. College students can text GOT5 or Got5U to 741741.

If you have a family member that you want to support or you require support as a caretaker related to mental health concerns, NAMI is a great resource. https://www.nami.org/

If you have a story you'd like to tell, send me an email at carrie.always.talking@gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you.

Facebook group- www.facebook.com/groups/carriesalwaystalking/

Transcript

Carrie McNulty (00:15)

Hello, welcome back to Carrie's Always Talking. I am Carrie McNulty, your host. This is episode nine, which is a full episode today. And I am lucky enough to have a guest for whom I will be introducing here in a moment. But first I want to say this is a podcast all about stories and connections. I think that one of the main ways that we build empathy and humanity for one another is through hearing and sharing our stories. And that is something that I think that we could use a little more of in the world today.

I am joined today by Paul Fields and he is a friend of mine, but also an avid cycler. He's performed at City Theater as part of the Young Playwrights Festival. He's also a Arcade Comedy Theater short form improviser, which is how we got into each other's orbits. We were on a team together for about three years or a couple teams that we both took part in and he's a joy to work with and play with.

He's also, you know, really importantly a mentor and a really great friend to the people in his lives, as well as an uncle and many, many other things. I think you're going to really enjoy hearing from him today. And I feel like what he's going to share with us is really a gift. Paul is somebody who has dealt with depression at all different levels in his life and different periods in his life. And he's going to be vulnerable and sharing what it was like for him to realize that he was getting to the place where

He actually had an attempt on his life and thankfully that was not successful and he's going to share with us some of the things that helped to bring him back into being at his baseline now and what it's like to try to maintain that. I want to be clear when I say that in no way shape or form is today's chat discussion that I'm having with Paul therapy, nor is it a replacement for therapy of any kind. And what he's generous enough to share that works for him in terms of skills or ways of coping.

those may not necessarily work best for everybody. And so if you find yourself ever in the position where you're dealing with anything mental health related, know, reach out, speak to somebody, get a therapist, psychiatrist. There's so many different avenues to get connected with somebody. But part of the main message of what he's sharing today is that speaking up and getting connected is key in staying well and getting well. So at the end of this and the show notes, I'm going to attach some resources.

in case you yourself are dealing with anything mental health related and want some additional support. And also I'm going to attach the website for NAMI, which would be in case you are a friend or family member of somebody who's struggling with mental health and you want to be able to provide them with more support or get more education for yourself on whatever particular diagnosis they might be dealing with. At the top of the show, I always like to say thank you to anybody who is listening. And I just want to say that I

appreciate you all and the fact that you're following and sharing means a lot to me. Please continue to do so. And if you would like to come on the show because you have a story to tell, please reach out. My email address is also going to be in the show notes. One little more disclaimer I want to throw in there today is that we aren't going to be talking about explicit details of suicide, but there is discussion around an attempt. And so if that is something that's going to be challenging for you to listen to, be it because of your own history or because of the history of somebody close to you.

I want to invite you to, you know, maybe not listen to this episode if that's not something that you're feeling okay with or safe with. But as I said, nothing explicit about that is going to be discussed. I'm still probably going to make this episode labeled as explicit just in case, because some of the content might be a little bit more uncomfortable for people. So with that said, I'm gonna go ahead and have us get into the little chat. I never really like to call it an interview, right? I'm just talking and the other person is just talking.

I'm gonna let us get into that and I'll catch you at the end of the episode.

Carrie McNulty (04:13)

Hey, Paul, how are you?

Paul Fields (04:14)

Hey, Carrie. I am peachy keen, as always, and yourself.

Carrie McNulty (04:19)

I'm Swell. Thank you for asking. I never get to say that enough, you know. I'm Swell.

Paul Fields (04:27)

Yeah, that's one sort of adjective that's gone by the wayside these days.

Carrie McNulty (04:33)

I think we should make it our mission to bring it back.

Paul Fields (04:35)

know, resurgence of swell.

Carrie McNulty (04:37)

It's so good that you were wanting to come on and talk to me, to us, because I was, like I told you, secretly hoping that you would. So, yeah.

Paul Fields (04:50)

The secret sauce of this show is anyone listening right now. Carrie's secret sauce is just, she's a manifestor. It's just, you never see it. It's just always, the gears are turning of just like, make this happen.

Carrie McNulty (05:05)

Mm -hmm. -hmm. Mm -hmm. like to think that if you put it out in the universe, you'll get something back, you know? And hopefully usually that's good, but you know.

Paul Fields (05:12)

Mm

Well, it's like, it's how we did improv for, god, like three years. That's sort of what you learn. But you have to zip -zap -zap with the world around you and not just your fellow jesters and clowns on stage. So, yeah. I'm glad that I could pick up on your yes and then and you in this.

Carrie McNulty (05:20)

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Yes, always. Right? That's what's so great about improv. And as Paul alluded to, we were on a team together, a couple of different teams, over about three years or so. so I think that hopefully that comes through today that we have an ease in our rapport and a way to yes and one another, which is the basic rule of improv. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Paul Fields (06:00)

sure.

Carrie McNulty (06:06)

What would you like to talk about today? I I'm gonna talk about in the intro the general idea. But so when you were like, yes, I think I have a story to tell, what came to mind for you that you were like, I really wanna share this?

Paul Fields (06:15)

Mm

So I think it's about sort of the SAT words here. Here they just come back.

But the ubiquity and I guess the common sort of experience of depression that so many people have. I don't have stats or anything in front of me, but I think it's fairly quantifiable of like, say there's like 10 people in a room, like maybe three of them in there, more than likely suffer from some form of manic depression or bipolar depression and maybe not.

Carrie McNulty (06:37)

Mm

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (07:00)

suffer but live with let's put it that way and this really came to I don't want to say ahead with me but this really was popping into my daily interactions when as recently as a few weeks ago I had more and more of my friends just going like hey just letting you know that like I've been having a really tough time as far as like trying to keep

Carrie McNulty (07:02)

Right. Yeah.

Paul Fields (07:30)

things together. And these are people that like, I look up to. These are people who I've known for years. These are some people with whom I've performed on stages, and some of them are even my family members. And I think it's about how like,

Carrie McNulty (07:36)

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (07:49)

You obviously the the aphorism of like you never know what someone's going through and that's very true. We're all really sort of held hostage by each other and to each other of like kind of keeping up a strong face. And I think it's so much more important to really pull off those masks and just like, you know, unclass the bras as it were. Just.

Carrie McNulty (07:54)

Mm -hmm.

The emotional bra Yeah.

Paul Fields (08:16)

emotional bras and just let the chest breathe because truly trying to keep things together will suffocate you so terribly. And yeah, I think it's a lot better to understand that like you're not the only one that's drowning and that's not to say that you can't lean on others. Yeah, I would really, really encourage

Carrie McNulty (08:19)

you

Mm.

you

Paul Fields (08:43)

lots of people, whether or not they think they have depression, or whether they know someone who is depressed, or even if they're just like kind of worried, to at the very least like extend that olive branch. Like just go like, hey, how are you doing? Is there anything that I can do for you? Oftentimes it's just listening and going from there and do your best to like, yes, and the people in your life, even whenever they're like, not giving you their best.

Carrie McNulty (09:11)

Mm -hmm. Yeah, and especially I think all of those are fantastic points because more people are dealing with mental health issues than some may even realize themselves. Like you said, there are people who are just coming to realize that now and because you have been open with your story, they're coming to you to say, hey, this is an experience I'm having, which I think is really powerful for you to be able to be supportive for somebody who is feeling for the first time like, ooh, something's not right here and this is not typical for me. You what do I do with this?

Paul Fields (09:37)

right

Carrie McNulty (09:38)

And the fact that then they're brave enough to speak up and probably because they've witnessed, you know, a little bit of what you've gone through and the bravery it takes to be open about that and to accept and receive help is all fantastic message because to some degree or another, we're all going to be touched by mental health issues in our lives, whether it's ourselves or somebody close to us. being able to talk about it is the most important thing, it's key.

Because we like to think we could carry it all ourselves, and we don't want to burden anybody. And that is the trickiest thing about depression, I will say, is the idea that you are a burden is inherent in that diagnosis. It's part of the pathology of it. And the more you're struggling, the more you're convincing yourselves that everybody else would be better off not dealing with you to one degree or another. And really, the answer and the key is to say something.

Paul Fields (10:13)

Mm

Carrie McNulty (10:33)

Right? So I love your message because it's so true.

Paul Fields (10:34)

It's that thing of, and it was, it's the comedy of how I grew up, but like, my parents, my grandparents, they'd always say like, a closed mouth doesn't get fed. And truly it's that, unfortunately, if you might be able to hear my dad blowing his nose right now. If it's not that.

Carrie McNulty (10:47)

Mmm.

You got a good mic.

Paul Fields (10:58)

If it's not that, it's probably some demon dove that's out there cooing in a window, so if it's not birds, it's my father. But anyway, but that is the clearest aphorism of just like, yeah, people won't know if you don't say anything. And that is really the most tragic thing. I, there were obvious signs for

Carrie McNulty (11:02)

Mmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mm

Paul Fields (11:26)

years probably as early as like high school or so and it makes sense because it's just like you're a teenager your hormones are hating you you're hating yourself you're hating your situation just like it's not a phase mom but i remember very vividly there was a year where i was like i'm gonna make a new year's resolution to try and be more positive and looking back on that right now it was just like babes honey

Carrie McNulty (11:34)

Mm -hmm.

Aww.

Paul Fields (11:56)

You just want to like get in that DeLorean, hit 88 miles per hour and just like find yourself and go like, listen, we can't interact. This will break the time space continuum or whatever. But like, here's a little note. It's just going to let you know that like, this is kind of clinical. This is also a family history, which that was also fun finding out. And it's also the thing of like, you can have as many sort of like

Carrie McNulty (12:18)

Mmm.

Paul Fields (12:25)

self -help mantras and you can do all those things of like telling yourself like just try and feel better or like have you ever considered not feeling sad all the things that clearly don't work but it's it's a lot easier or

Carrie McNulty (12:35)

Aw. Mm

Paul Fields (12:42)

I guess it's harder whenever you're like shoving it down and literally trying to like bear a pillow over those feelings. It's a lot harder and yet it will be easier if you're just like, you gotta kind of feel your way through it, truly. It is, it is, it's not linear.

Carrie McNulty (12:49)

Mm -hmm.

Yes.

Paul Fields (13:04)

Much like life, is a roller coaster of ups and downs, lots of topsy -turvy moments. I will say that the compared resilience of like a decade ago to now is night and day. There are things now where I remember...

Carrie McNulty (13:05)

Mm.

Mm.

Paul Fields (13:24)

like a lot of the depression symptoms are just like feeling very on edge, almost to the point where it's like I'm feeling so down that like the anxiety is trying to like counteract the low points.

Carrie McNulty (13:34)

Yeah, that makes sense.

Paul Fields (13:37)

And so, like, just tiny things, like if I dropped, like, my favorite coffee cup, or, I don't know, like, I would rip my pants a lot at work, because I bike everywhere. And whenever I was still working at Starbucks, there was a lot of deep squatting that went on. It's just like... They don't tell you...

Carrie McNulty (13:47)

Yeah.

They don't tell you about that, the deep squatting that goes on at Starbucks.

Paul Fields (14:00)

Not at all. Like, you just think, you just make frappuccinos and send them out to people, and it's like, no, you're doing some lifting. And I remember there was a day at work where it was like, I was on the verge of tears because it was like a stressful day, and I had already ripped so many pairs of jeans, and I'm just like, it's fine. I'm just gonna go home. It's fine. And then I got hoed. I just like crawled into bed, like didn't eat anything that night, and then just got up and went back to work.

Carrie McNulty (14:04)

You

Yeah.

Paul Fields (14:29)

And so like, I think what I try to do now.

Carrie McNulty (14:35)

you

Paul Fields (14:35)

especially is know that especially given, you know, the history, the attempt, the recovery, and thank goodness for like the village that was obviously there and is still there around me every day. Now it's like, well, fingers crossed knocking on every wooden surface possible, that was the worst possible thing that could happen. And spoiler alert, obviously, I did it to myself. So like, I'm the worst thing that I have faced. Everything else out from here is just like, well, I mean,

Carrie McNulty (14:41)

Mmm.

Yeah.

Hmm

Paul Fields (15:06)

Babes, you didn't try to kill me, so...

Carrie McNulty (15:09)

Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting perspective that you're taking that of like, well, I did that to me, and that's probably the worst thing that I'm going to face. But it also sounds like you hold a lot of empathy for that part of you that got to the place where you felt like that's what you had to do, too, right? Yeah.

Paul Fields (15:21)

sure. You... it requires a lot of understanding where you are at that moment, what got you there, and knowing that it's very shitty. Well, excuse the phrasing, but it just is.

Carrie McNulty (15:32)

Mm -hmm.

You

Paul Fields (15:42)

And like, I think you also, you have to have this sort of double consciousness of like, things are bad, they're not the worst that they've ever been, things can get better, but it's obviously not going to happen like right now or tomorrow. And so you have to find baseline, whatever that is, wherever it is, and at the very least, just like try and maintain your baseline, defend it at all possible costs.

Carrie McNulty (15:47)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Paul Fields (16:12)

but like find your baseline and just function from there.

Carrie McNulty (16:14)

Mm

Well, it sounds like you need to know too when you're at your limits and what that looks like and feels like. And as you said, when you were a lot younger, you wouldn't have had any idea of what that was. We always get the benefit when we're older, right? Like, man, I would have been unstoppable if I would have known the shit I know now at 25. man. But I didn't. So I get to be 44 and know it now. But either way, you don't know what your baseline is until you have experience in life. And then you're like, OK.

Paul Fields (16:28)

Mm -hmm

Carrie McNulty (16:45)

I can see it building. I can tell I'm maybe not heading in a good direction and you have enough skills and understanding now to know what to do with that. But again, younger version of you didn't know, new things felt bad. New things felt real shitty, but didn't know, we adapt down too as people. Every day, if you're starting to feel like you're slipping into an episode or it's not feeling good, it's so insidious. It just creeps up too sometimes. So you don't realize.

You just get used to feeling worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. And then you're like, no, this is not good.

Paul Fields (17:22)

It was a lot of so obviously we met through improv for years like

Carrie McNulty (17:27)

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (17:32)

Back whenever I was in high school was around the time where I was very heavily creatively active. Like I did marching band for four years, I concert band for four years, I was in the musicals all four years. Like I loved that sort of creative art that allows you to like involve every single part of your brain and then let go. I was also a rampant perfectionist, still am in some ways, and that is, I feel like

Carrie McNulty (17:42)

Hmm.

How?

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Paul Fields (18:02)

that's more than anything my title of like perfectionist in recovery.

was just going like, yeah, we're not gonna let the need to make things obsessively compulsively aligned get in our way anymore. There are some days where it's just like, gotta, we gotta rip that bandaid off. you know, going from that sort of environment of doing everything to now I'm in college, now I'm not doing as much art as I would like to. And it's really all that I've wanted to do. To then finally graduating and then pushing myself to go like,

Carrie McNulty (18:20)

Hmm

Paul Fields (18:39)

Well, I mean, it's not like you're gonna get a media job. I studied broadcast reporting with a minor in poli sci for four years. That was a lot of paper writing. And it was really more of just going like, well, the rules don't matter. And a lot of the media is just advertising and spin sadly. It sounds cynical, but really if you watch too many ads, it starts to become the same message over and over. And.

Carrie McNulty (18:46)

Ooh, yeah.

for sure. yeah, turn on any news channel, especially local news, and you'll hear the exact same thing. Like that's not coincidental. Yeah.

Paul Fields (19:08)

we learn like bleeding leads and everything. It's just like, God, I do not enjoy this. It was valuable information though. And I love to carry it with me because it makes me capable of parsing out what I can find that is useful information from noise. And that then also became really the sort of proving ground in the training that I sort of needed to keep going in art.

Carrie McNulty (19:13)

Mm.

Yeah.

Paul Fields (19:36)

And really improv was just like take all that life experience, what little or what more that you have, and just throw it into this space where other people are also going to bring their ingredients in life and you get to have fun.

Carrie McNulty (19:39)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mm.

Yeah. yes.

Paul Fields (19:53)

and it was the most fun possible. Now, then, and I know that we've talked about this before, but we both did that thing where we got hyper -involved in our creative pursuits.

Carrie McNulty (19:59)

you

Way, way hyper involved. Yeah, I am not that active of as a person. I don't know what I was doing.

Paul Fields (20:13)

Like it's that thing where like when you're older you have the perspective of just like what was I do like? How did I have the energy? So I was by the time it had been like pre pandemic so like 2019 going into 2020

Carrie McNulty (20:19)

Yeah, too much.

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (20:31)

I was working like six jobs all at once. I was a house manager for a local theater. I was... Well, we were on our house team at Arcade. I was a barista Monday through Friday, so I at least had consistent caffeine levels in my blood.

Carrie McNulty (20:40)

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (20:48)

If not unstable once most likely I was a teaching artist for City Theatre I was at a middle school on the north side trying to teach them one -act playwriting and Improv I was at my old high school assistant directing for the third year in the row Because I got involved in that after I graduated from college and then I was actually tapped on the shoulder by the education director the former education director at City Theatre and

to help out at the school in which she was currently, I think a principal if not a teaching app, to help with their junior musical. So I was doing six things all at once in the span of like six or eight months and the only way I could do it was because, I don't know, I was getting some hours, you know, at least like four and a half to five every night.

Carrie McNulty (21:28)

Wow.

You were never sleeping?

Yeah.

Paul Fields (21:45)

Also, I was younger then. I was willing to throw myself into situations and not really care about the results unless it was just like, you know, I did the thing, I'm happy to help out. And, and...

Carrie McNulty (21:49)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm. Well, and you were passionate about all those things, and so many people wanted you to do it. It's hard to say no when people are into what you're doing. Yeah.

Paul Fields (22:03)

Exactly. It's that thing of like, have to say yes because how soon or how later will it be until I can actually work again or like rely on this sort of industry for jobs again. And then, you know, nothing big happened in 2020, just a tiny global pandemic that stopped the world. Just a minor.

Carrie McNulty (22:15)

Mm -hmm.

Hmm, nothing, nothing really.

Paul Fields (22:26)

And so like everything stops and it's like, wow, okay, so I do nothing. And then the only thing that comes back is work. And it just became this like mouse wheel of like going to work, coming home, being exhausted and feeling like those were the only options. And that's sort of the like sad recursive head space that you start getting in.

Carrie McNulty (22:33)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (22:52)

what I learned in especially my recovery with like the 18 months of therapy and whatnot was what is really important. And like cognitive behavioral therapy was very helpful. And that like you find where at least like the thoughts are occurring or where the thoughts are starting to sound very much like a loop or

Carrie McNulty (23:04)

That's good.

Paul Fields (23:14)

a behavior that starts to like kick up the thought of just like, well, this isn't making me feel very great. just have to pump the brakes just a little bit. You don't have to stop your entire day, but you just have to go like, this is not helpful. Finding those moments where you can intervene and just go like, when and where is this thought actually helpful?

Carrie McNulty (23:26)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Right. And if we're talking about an obsessive thought or depressive thought, rarely are they helpful. But so, you know, from my perspective to I am not being a therapist here, but using therapist knowledge, I just like to say, I don't look at those parts of us as negative through my training, right? Obviously the press of part of you are the part that wants you to be perfect or do well is thinking there's a negative consequence that it's protecting you from. so

it's also sometimes hard to tell when it's in your own head and you don't say it out loud, is this distorted or is this not distorted? So you're kind of coming back to your initial point is you kind of have to say something to somebody in order to get help because we can't trust our own thoughts when we get to that place until you go through some treatment and you get some time under your belt and you understand what is distorted and what isn't. And then you can start to work with it on your own, which it sounds like you're doing that a lot more where you're like, hmm.

Paul Fields (24:09)

Mm

Carrie McNulty (24:30)

Wait a second here. Let's just take a second and reframe that because I don't yeah.

Paul Fields (24:33)

Yes.

And really, the beautiful thing was, I remember I was talking with one therapist right and was Hannah Ryan, she's phenomenal. And she, she was telling me how, even in sort of the way they educated us on mental health was at least helpful in the baseline of understanding. But then it's that thing of the more you learn, the sort of less that you're understanding because it's it's more complex. And it's also a lot simpler of just like,

Carrie McNulty (24:52)

Mm

Paul Fields (25:04)

hear these negative emotions. I'm like, okay, but you can't avoid these emotions. They're a natural part of what happened. Like you're going to be disappointed. Like it's an unavoidable reality that like something or somewhere or someone at some time is going to disappoint you. You're going to get angry. You're going to be sad or fearful about things. Like these are naturally occurring processes. Very.

Carrie McNulty (25:10)

Nope.

Yeah.

And, and justified, right?

Paul Fields (25:35)

And finding, really finding out ways that I had been like trying to regulate them early on. We were talking before we started recording, we were talking about a horror film that I went to go and see. And I remember like very distinctly hating horror films as a kid, because like it's just anxiety inducing. Who wants to sit in a dark room and suddenly be jolted out of their seat? And now look at me decades later, I'm just like, I

Carrie McNulty (25:50)

No.

Mm -hmm. yes.

Paul Fields (26:05)

This is background noise to me. But it is that sort of fun way where you get to like... It's like a tiny inoculation of fear.

Carrie McNulty (26:07)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (26:18)

Spoiler alert for like a dog whistle work now, but like you sort of vaccinate yourself like in tiny doses of just like, this is what fear feels like. If I can understand what the feeling is, then I can recognize it in the moment. And knowing what like you're feeling in the moment, you're not feeling overwhelmed. It's like, okay, this is manageable. The sky is not falling down around me.

Carrie McNulty (26:27)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (26:42)

And so yeah, sort of artistic expressions and experiences, be it movies, be it theater. I've tried to get back into writing, if not just journaling has really been like the outlet that's just like, hi, here's what your brain goes through. And it's always like, it's always sort of been the thing that helps. I never really knew that it was going to be as therapeutic as it is now.

Carrie McNulty (26:53)

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Paul Fields (27:09)

But you know, you sort of go back and find the things that you connected to when you were younger. was just like, this is why I was drawn to this. Some people are more kinesthetic. I know many people who get a kick out of throwing themselves into very, very intense gym routines and God bless them. Let them have that.

Carrie McNulty (27:18)

Yeah.

Paul Fields (27:34)

And it's also funny I say that because we also had an earlier conversation about my fun adventures of riding bikes in this city.

Carrie McNulty (27:41)

Right, you do like to have some physical activity. It just seems like it's also universally, and when I say universally, mean, the universe seems to have it out for Paul with his bike. I'm not sure why. But that's something that's been helpful to him when he isn't getting hit by a car. Yeah. And I can laugh about it because thankfully he is okay and has been every time. So that's very important.

Paul Fields (27:56)

God, yeah.

We can howl with laughter about it because truly the comedy of errors that is my life and my bikes, I have so many random scars and bruises that I've carried with me over the years of trying to maintain physical activity, especially on my bike.

and the first one that I bought, I had working breaks for the first time. just bear with me of whatever you're going downhill and you're sort of trying to gauge how fast you're going to stop.

Carrie McNulty (28:27)

Mm -hmm. That's new. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Hmm.

Paul Fields (28:36)

and I threw myself over the bars and it just gave me like a really nice gash down my left leg so that's how my first bike got her name which is a bit obscene to add into this discourse but let's just say let's call it shin messer upper for the kids that might be listening

And I like rode that bike for years. And then recently, after I got a new job, I saved up a few paychecks and I was just like, let's just get a new bike, you know? And so I went on a site, ordered one online because, you know, paying for more bikes in store, they can almost cost as much as like a first car. I'm like, I don't have that kind of money. So I get this new one. She's bright red. I call her car lack for all the Baldur's

Carrie McNulty (29:21)

Mmm.

Mm

Paul Fields (29:29)

three fans out there and

So on July 18th, I remember it clears day, normal day like any other. I am getting my bike ready. I take it out onto my street. I'm veering down my hill. I make a left down another hill. And then I make a right that gets me onto the main drag that I cross and then a railroad that I have to cross to then get on the main drag that takes me into work. I'm very lucky in that I can bike to work. I love doing it. I'm less than a mile away from my job. It's beautiful.

Carrie McNulty (29:53)

Mm.

Mm -hmm.

That's great.

Paul Fields (30:03)

Well, lo and behold, as luck would have it, I go through the stop sign, I see a car, and I'm like, that car's stopping. That car's definitely stopping. I can keep going. That car's not stopping.

Carrie McNulty (30:18)

Eyyyy

Paul Fields (30:20)

and they hit the back wheel portion of my bike, I just instantly fly. This is not my first crash, let me put it that way. I am experienced in falling down. Depression experiencer, perfectionist experiencer. You kind of, truly, you do have to know how to like...

Carrie McNulty (30:37)

gonna say like this there's a theme here

Paul Fields (30:46)

safely hit the ground in order to make sure that you're not going to cause further damage to yourself. And so like you just ragdoll it. And the entire time I'm thinking, well, this could be worse. Like my eyes closed because I hit my head. I was not wearing a helmet. I know, shame, shame, shame. But, you know, I survived. I dusted myself off. I limped away with a sprained ankle.

Carrie McNulty (30:48)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (31:15)

my rear back tire exploded. And after I limped home, I called my sister and I'm like, hey, do me a favor, just drive me to the ER. Don't ask questions, just drive me to the ER.

Carrie McNulty (31:25)

Yeah, she's like, okay.

Paul Fields (31:27)

And the, geez, she's about to like lecture me on asking people for help. And I'm like, firstly, that is what I just did. So let's pat ourselves on the back for this sort of progress. Secondly, I don't know if you've noticed, but I've got this little gash right up here. I would like for us to find out whether or not I have a concussion before we start into the therapy speak.

Carrie McNulty (31:39)

Right, right.

Hmm.

I'm not gonna be able to remember anything you're saying if I in fact do have a concussion and also, yeah.

Paul Fields (31:57)

Yeah, yeah, like the endorphins are kicking in. I would like to make sure that whenever I get really tired and take a nap that I wake up later. And you know, something like that years ago probably would have devastated me. And the thing about it is, is that it's still a normal occurrence. It's...

Carrie McNulty (32:04)

Mmm.

Mm -hmm.

In Pittsburgh, absolutely.

Paul Fields (32:23)

Well, even there was a story, it really put into perspective for me. There was a story around the same time. If not, I think that morning where there was a doctor in Philadelphia who unfortunately died because of an actual crash. And that one really put it into perspective because it's like she was in the bike lane. So it's like protected person, protected lane. Still things can happen.

Carrie McNulty (32:44)

Yeah.

Right. Sure.

Paul Fields (32:51)

And that was just another lesson in the whole.

link in the chain of just like, yeah, things are gonna happen. Crashes are gonna happen. You cannot anticipate them, truly. I know now better of one wearing my helmet being very wary at that intersection. But, you know, I also, there's been a lot of surrender of coming back to my perfectionism, of trying to keep things together or trying to control uncontrollable matters and

situations where it's just like, I can't do much here. It's our yes and training, truly. We've been in scenes where sometimes it's gotten a little stressful or you're fearing toward the edge and we just hope we just sit there on the sidelines biting our fingers like, how are they going to bring this home?

Carrie McNulty (33:33)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, gotta bring it back somehow, I hope.

Paul Fields (33:51)

And sometimes we do and sometimes we don't but like that is that's how it works

Carrie McNulty (33:53)

Yep.

Yeah, life is unpredictable on a good day. And you're right. It's how do I handle it, right? What do I do with it? It's just like those emotions you were saying, like, you can be angry. You can be sad. These things come up. And you are justified in having those. It's what you do with them that matters and knowing how to take care of yourself. So some of the big things that you learned in therapy or ways that were coping for you, you were saying, I came to realize I was actually already doing those things when I was younger. I just didn't realize the function.

now I realize the function and I've gotten back to it. So you journal more and you ride your bike and what other things do do these days that you're like when you're not feeling so good or what do you do to keep you feeling okay and at your baseline?

Paul Fields (34:41)

my God. Just the basics of health.

I know it's probably a big thing in online spaces, especially among like, millennials and like Gen Z folks in that age of like bed rotting and like, yeah, you know, we're not, it's not so much the intentionally not taking care of ourselves, but there's this sort of unhinged, almost gross level of romanticization of like, yeah, I'm depressed, I don't care. And I'm like, babes, listen, it sucks. It's probably the

Carrie McNulty (34:59)

yeah.

Paul Fields (35:17)

most cliche advice that you are ever gonna get, but it's helpful and you need to listen to it. Take care of yourself. Eat a well -balanced meal with like protein and carbs. Drink water. No one is telling you that you have to like look smacks and like be in the gym 24 -7. Go for a walk. Do some stretching. Doing those things at baseline has made me feel like, okay, I can at least go

Carrie McNulty (35:20)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (35:47)

on with the rest of my day. Taking five minutes to just be in a quiet room and not be like hit with loud noises or like unnecessary chatter is the hugest thing at my workplace because I work in a production facility it's like a factory and so much of it is just loud talking and so much of it is loud machines and I'm just like

Carrie McNulty (35:55)

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Sensory overload. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Fields (36:10)

Yeah, so it's a lot of understanding at baseline, like I need these parameters, or I just need one tiny little rope that I can cling to that's gonna keep me going for the next eight hours of my shift. It's little things, it's truly little things.

Carrie McNulty (36:20)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Paul Fields (36:30)

And I've given that same sort of advice to myself and to friends who are like, how has it been of just recovering or at least feeling like you were back to normal? And it did truly take me that full 18 months of like, consistent if like on and off consistent therapy sessions on a weekly basis. But also that thing of like, having to know when to stop when I know I'm getting back into old behavior

Carrie McNulty (36:46)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Paul Fields (37:25)

I'm like, babes, we probably got a good 40

minutes in this social setting for that battery taps out and you're like we got a the beds calling

Carrie McNulty (37:34)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. just, you know, brain needs a rest. again, you know yourself better now, to know what is working for you.

There's lots of skills that you can use, but you're right. It's the basic foundational things. If you're not taking care of sleeping and eating and taking meds and doing things in a routine, it makes people with, you know, when you're struggling with depression, the last thing you want to hear is for somebody to say, get up out of your bed or get activated. People get annoyed and understandably so, but unfortunately that is one of the things that we know statistically works best. Activation is the answer for depression and people do get annoyed. And I understand why, because

Paul Fields (38:02)

Ugh.

It's like they're being lectured all over again. They feel like that kid that's in their room just like, I want to be left alone. No one bother me. And it's like, you got to sort of walk hand in hand with that very curmudgeoned teenager or however you want to view that that part of yourself. I'm really big on that sort of personifying those feelings. And just going like, you got to pull them along with you. Because you

Carrie McNulty (38:17)

You know.

Yeah.

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Exactly.

Paul Fields (38:47)

You they're going to be a part of your life and you... It's not to say that you can't let them run your daily activities, but like you can't let it be the ball and chain that it will turn into. Because it's going to hold you back. It's going to stop you from really living. It's going to stop you from enjoying things.

Carrie McNulty (38:50)

Mm -hmm.

Mm

Paul Fields (39:11)

And you know, sometimes, really a lot of times, it's okay to just not have it together that day. I think we put it a lot more pressure with, you know, feeling as though we're held hostage by each other of like, have to show up for each other. And that's very true. But like, you can, you can also sort of prioritize your health and your safety and your well -being when you know that just like, I'm not gonna be much fun today. I'm sorry.

Carrie McNulty (39:39)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Being honest, like I, I'm going to be here, but I might not fully be here today. You know, I want to hang out, but I might not be able to offer what I normally offer. And I do look at as, look at it as an and, and not an or, or a, but, so you can be in a place where you're feeling more depressed and still get up out of bed and still have to go to work. And you know, it doesn't mean that life has to totally come to a complete stop because if it does, then you're probably not getting back up again. You know,

Paul Fields (39:53)

Mm

Exactly. And we've had those days. remember as you were saying it, there would be rehearsals where it's just like, you know, like we do check -ins, we do warm -ups and god.

Carrie McNulty (40:10)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (40:20)

God bless. I think like, was it joystick that Sarah Wojdylak was our instructor for? Yes. And like, I remember probably that being one of the first times in a creative aspect where someone really was just like, I know mental things are going on. You're probably in a different headspace right now. This is one of those like weird warmups where we just keep patting our legs and shaking around like weirdos. That's kind of like, at least at the very least, if you're not feeling like you're going to be able to contribute something, you can at least feel

Carrie McNulty (40:27)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (40:51)

like you have some sort of like control or effort and effect in your body and at the very least you could be physically present and you can be present with your teammates and then you look up and next thing you know like you just did a scene where like half of your buddies are crying laughing

Carrie McNulty (40:56)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, improv is a gift in many ways because you get to play and you get to, even if you're not in a great head space, other people help carry you, you know, which is so nice and such a good metaphor for kind of what we're saying anyway, is that there's gonna be times where you're not at your best and you need your village or you need people to understand that you're not at your best and they help to carry you a little bit until you could get to the place where you are more like yourself.

Paul Fields (41:20)

Mm

Carrie McNulty (41:36)

And that would typically happen. People would start out at the place of like, ugh, this is going on, or I have a headache, or I don't feel good, or I don't, whatever, right? And then by the end of the practice, you're like, wow, I'm really glad I did that. Yeah.

Paul Fields (41:47)

really glad. It's the thing of learning. I, god, if I could, I would probably, like...

I would teach improv to like teenagers. Like I would go back to my old high school and just be like, here's improv class. Here is why improv is important. And, you know, we try and teach kids teamwork in, I think, really unhelpful ways. Like we force them into group projects, which is the worst thing you could ever do. Don't make me work with people, even though that's what we do in general.

Carrie McNulty (41:58)

Mm -hmm.

You

Yeah agreed. Yeah. No.

Paul Fields (42:25)

And like that I think what's even worse is they try and do it through sports which is still like it's all about competition versus like

Carrie McNulty (42:31)

Yeah.

Paul Fields (42:33)

Improv is the space where it is the most like ensemble focused activity that you could do. And it also teaches you, this was another, another beautiful thing that the instructors at Improv were really great at teaching us where it's like, there will be some of you who are really good at like initiating or being loud. And then there are going to be some of you who are actually a lot better supporters. And like, it's not about trying to turn

Carrie McNulty (42:40)

Mm -hmm.

Mm

Mm -hmm.

Paul Fields (43:04)

leaders into supporters or supporters into leaders. It's actually trying to oscillate between the two. It's trying to like find, read the room, look, stay present. That's what we all kind of focus on, but like, that's the real sort of test of improv, is seeing like, where things are leaning, and how you can sort of keep everything from going off the rails, and how you can keep it focused, or just like, someone's being madcap. Okay, let me either come in and counter them, or

Carrie McNulty (43:09)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Paul Fields (43:33)

let's keep building. And that sort of ensemble team building is so fun, but it also, teaches you that you are capable of so much more and that you are also capable of holding space for people who can help you in ways that you didn't even know were possible.

Carrie McNulty (43:50)

Yeah, that's very true. So we've left it at you're gonna start teaching improv with high school students. I like it. I think you should, but you know that and not like six other jobs.

Paul Fields (44:04)

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. My way of changing the world is like, ugh, there are very few things that I can control, I've learned. And I loved that I learned so much in school, especially whenever it came to broadcasting, because when I have this lovely little mic, I have my ability to hide my terrible Yinzer accent. And...

Carrie McNulty (44:29)

I've never experienced you as having a Yinzer accent. And no hate to people who do, just simply stating I've never experienced him as.

Paul Fields (44:32)

That's because of the four years of training at Point Park University, my friend. No, listen, we don't have the worst accent in the world. We save that for places like Boston. But, know, like, there's been...

Carrie McNulty (44:44)

oooo

Paul Fields (44:52)

There's been so much training in all this stuff that I've learned and what it has really taught me is that there's very few things that you can control. And I think one of the big things that was kind of the mind breaker was that the world felt chaotic and that there was nothing that I could do, that there were no choices. And I'm like, there is a choice you actually have the ability to do so much more than you think is possible. And it may not affect others in the ways that are big and on the grand scale, but like tiny, tiny revolutions, tiny rebellions,

Carrie McNulty (44:58)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Paul Fields (45:22)

of people making art, of people being kind to one another, being a helper like Fred Rogers said, and like actually being a helper, not like looking like a helper. It's those things. Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (45:30)

Yeah.

looking helper posing.

Paul Fields (45:38)

And being helpful to others, but only in the capacity that like, you know that you are being helpful to yourself. Because like, doing all that stuff for others and trying to be self -sacrificial, like it's great, but none times out of ten, like you end up with egg on your face, so know your limits.

Carrie McNulty (45:44)

Yeah.

Well, right, and you end up losing everything that you've got in reserve and nothing's really filling you back up again. And I think that's great. And I like your message, at least for the state of the world right now, because I know a lot of people discuss what can they do with the way things look in the world and they feel really hopeless about it. But it really comes back down to every day, the little routines and taking care of yourself and doing what you can do to control it and contributing where you can and knowing where that's effective.

That's how we make a difference, right? It isn't always a large gesture or grand thing that you do. It's a lot of pressure to put on yourself.

Paul Fields (46:29)

I it's important to have a perspective that is grand and small. It's the oscillation thing. You have to have the double consciousness of knowing how things work.

Carrie McNulty (46:39)

Mm

Paul Fields (46:44)

One of my friends, has her doctorate in English. She teaches at Pitt. But she is a massive, like, obsessive mushroom nerd. I would not be surprised if, like, she gets aboard and just goes like, well, I got my PhD in mycology over the summer. And I'm like, Dana, take a break. But she always has, like, these fun little facts about mushrooms. And anyone who's listening knows or, like, picks up on, like, all the weird things

that mushrooms do, but like they are the brains of our world. They're like these giant neural networks of forests that can communicate with trees like miles away. And they're tiny and they look insignificant, but you know, the mycelium does what it does and it keeps an entire ecosystem in check.

Carrie McNulty (47:20)

Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, it has a part to play even if it seems small. Yeah, totally.

Paul Fields (47:39)

the world to stage, we're all players. But really, all the world to stage, we're all players, but we're also crew members. Some of us are working lights. One of you most definitely has to get in control of the spotlight that's fixing on the wrong people. We got to get control of the crew breaks as well. We got to get those mandated. We're all working on one big production, whether we know it or not.

Carrie McNulty (47:45)

Mm -hmm.

Right.

Paul Fields (48:06)

And it's just, you know, trying to make the best of it, given the chaos that goes on with any production.

Carrie McNulty (48:14)

So many metaphors within metaphors between us today.

Paul Fields (48:17)

It's the art. We do a lot of it. I hope people enjoy them. If not, they'll be overwrought and that's fine.

Carrie McNulty (48:24)

They'll be like, I'm done with this. Well, is there anything that you want to leave us with today?

Paul Fields (48:34)

ooh, I don't know. Being long -winded was in my earlier years, and I feel like that's ironic, because we probably talked for the past hour.

Carrie McNulty (48:43)

No, it's only been 44 minutes and 35 seconds.

Paul Fields (48:50)

Okay, well, I will say, obviously, leave space for yourself, leave space for each other, be good to yourself, be good to each other. Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it in a mean way. And when in doubt, just, you know, find your inner Dorothy spornack and just try and mean mug your way through the Fultery.

Carrie McNulty (48:56)

Mm -hmm.

Mmm.

I love the golden girls reference. Gotta have it, gotta have it. Paul, I appreciate you so much. Thank you for sharing and being vulnerable and giving people an inside look of what it takes to get to a place of being in recovery and to continue to work on that. I think that was a gift, truly, because like I said, it's not an easy thing to do and that was something you stepped up to say, hey, this is something I wanna share. So thank you very much.

Paul Fields (49:19)

Yeah, got it, got it.

Carrie McNulty (49:46)

And yeah, I will be back next week with probably just a little mini episode. until then, I hope everybody is well and takes good care of themselves and everybody else. And until then, we will chat later. All right. Bye.