Carrie's Always Talking
The podcast all about stories and connection. Every other week there will be stories from people just like you, or perhaps it will be YOU! Stories are a part of the foundation of life, and they are one of the main ways we learn about one another. Hearing someone share their experience can be healing not only for the person sharing but also for those listening. You might laugh, you might cry, but you also might also learn that we're more alike than you think.
Carrie's Always Talking
Living a COVID-Conscious Life with Christina Virgil
This episode of Carrie's Always Talking is all about Covid. Carrie and her guest, Christina Virgil talk about what it's like to still be Covid conscious in 2025. Christina shared what sparked her interest in learning more about Covid as well as her desire to help others learn more about the virus and understand the severity. The benefits of continuing or resuming mitigation, even if the process is not perfect are discussed as well as some general information about viruses and immune systems. Neither Carrie or Christina are doctors, but that's part of what makes the information shared easily understood and relatable. As always, there is some levity in the episode too!
Resources:
Christina Virgil on TikTok- Maiden of Mayhem
At home Corsi-Rosenthal Box
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PxEzYtggtE
Mask Chain Ideas
https://www.etsy.com/market/mask_chain
Mentioned in the show:
Dr. Anthony (AJ) Leonardi, MBBS PhD
Dr. Ziyad Al-Aly, MD
Dr. Akiko Iwasaki, PhD
Dr. Danielle Beckman, PhD
Dr. Kimberly Prather, PhD
If you have a story you'd like to tell, send me an email at carrie.always.talking@gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you.
You can also find me on Bluesky- @carrie-is-talking.bsky.social
YouTube- @carrie-always-talking
Carrie McNulty (00:00)
Welcome back to Carrie's Always Talking. I'm your host, Carrie McNulty. This is the podcast all about stories and connections. I feel that when people share their stories with one another, it's the main way that we can build empathy and humanity, which is something that I think we need much more of in the world today. We're at episode four, season two, so we're moving right along. And on the episode today, I have a guest and her name is Christina Virgil. I met Christina
⁓ and became friends with her ⁓ on social media. And it was TikTok where we connected. And she has been doing some really hard work kind of since the start of the pandemic in taking complicated scientific research and articles and breaking it down in a way that an everyday person who isn't a scientist can understand the information, ask questions and become more informed. So. ⁓
I really wanted to have her on to talk a little bit more about some information about COVID. ⁓ And again, sharing it in a way that is understandable to the everyday person. But also she is somebody who lives a COVID conscious lifestyle, meaning that she still masks and doesn't eat indoors and restaurants in the wintertime, takes as many precautions as she reasonably can, as does her family.
because you can't be perfect with it. And I am somebody who lives my life that way as well. So I wanted to talk to somebody else who is still doing this five years plus into the pandemic and kind of see what her perspective is like still doing this, you know, precaution, living her life this way and to just have her share some information with us.
She is delightful to talk to. I think you'll learn a lot if it's something that you don't know much about or if it's something you're not even thinking about much of anymore because many people aren't. We don't hear much about it in the news and we probably won't. So if you are interested in learning more or still thinking about COVID in any way, shape or form, ⁓ I will be sure to include her profile information.
in the show notes so you can find her on TikTok if you're there and give her a follow. ⁓ Let's see, I'm going to ask again this week and continue to ask that if you're somebody who has the financial means, if you would be willing to join me in the monthly donation that I'm doing to my local food bank, doing that in your area. I think that the need for food is going to become greater and greater and that's something I don't think anybody should have to go without. ⁓
Food scarcity is a real thing in the best of times. And currently I would not say we're probably in the best of times. So that need is going to continue to grow. If you have the financial means and the willingness, I would really appreciate you considering doing that in your local community too, because there is a need. If you're somebody who has been listening or if you're new to the podcast, I want to say thank you as always that you're, that the people were even willing to spend a little bit of time with me is always an honor.
grateful for it because I just enjoy doing this. It's fun. It's been a great hobby for me and I'm glad that I can share it with people and maybe introduce you to some different folks that you don't know because that's what this is about is learning about other people, hearing stories from other people. If you like what you're hearing, please rate and review the podcast wherever you're listening because those reviews help the podcast to be noticed. And I think that's about
all before we go ahead and transition into the interview with Christina. ⁓ one more thing. If you're interested in coming on the show, you can find my contact information in the show notes. I have a Blue Sky profile and there is a YouTube page. And then there's also my email, which is the best way to reach out if you have a story you want to tell. As a reminder, you can do so anonymously. And that's about it. I'm going to go ahead and get us started on the interview and I will see you all.
See you all and talk to you all in another couple of weeks.
Carrie McNulty (04:31)
Hi Christina, thanks for joining me.
Christina Virgil (04:33)
Hey Carrie, how are you doing?
Carrie McNulty (04:36)
doing all right. It's a Saturday. It's hard to be, you know, too upset when you get a free day.
Christina Virgil (04:41)
Exactly,
exactly.
Carrie McNulty (04:44)
How are you doing?
Christina Virgil (04:46)
Whoo, you're right there, Barbara Walters. You're starting off with the heavy questions, aren't you? How are you holding on? Obviously, I'm getting, I think I'm doing well, honestly, about as well as I think we can be expected in this time and place and space, you know, but well.
Carrie McNulty (04:52)
Right, which should be a casual everyday question, the mirror, how are you doing?
Again, I like that this question takes a lot of consideration because it's not so simple. Yeah. ⁓ well, so I met Christina through TikTok, which has been awesome. And the way that I found her was that she is a person who does a lot of COVID reporting, we could say. A lot of...
Christina Virgil (05:18)
I know, I just- that's how far we have fallen.
Carrie McNulty (05:40)
taking really complicated studies and breaking them down in a way for everyday people to be able to understand them and out there looking for the information, you know, because it's again, not pretty, if you're an everyday person who just listens to mainstream media, news, whatever, you would think COVID is not a thing anymore. So.
Christina Virgil (05:59)
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm relieved that we could say the word COVID here. I definitely don't want to offend the sensibilities of the general public. But having to not have to the virus that shall not be named or... So that's a relief.
Carrie McNulty (06:09)
You
Right, Yeah,
yeah, feel free to say it here as many times as you would like. And as far as I know, we're okay to say it. can't say it. Won't change.
Christina Virgil (06:20)
⁓ man!
You're right. We'll find out.
Carrie McNulty (06:28)
But yes, Christina was a beacon of help and hope for myself and I'm sure for a lot of other people who follow her and others like her on TikTok who still talk about COVID as if it's a real thing because it is, and as if it's still something that is causing death and disability on a large scale on a weekly basis, which it is, both of those things. She, like myself, still lives in what you call a COVID conscious, COVID aware.
COVID realist, whatever way you want to put it. In a way it's such as that we respect that it's real and harms people and is ongoing. So.
Christina Virgil (07:06)
Absolutely,
yeah, because it is and you know looking at maybe mainstream media, you know, it's easy to see why so many wouldn't think that it was still around and I don't know if it's also maybe part of a collective trauma just to try and don't say it, don't talk about it, you know, just move past it but it's kind of the elephant in the room that's
I think people are just trying to ignore it an unhealthy manner. It doesn't make it go away just because you want it to.
Carrie McNulty (07:39)
Yeah.
Not at all. And if that were the case, then nobody would be passing away anymore. Nobody would be becoming disabled and chronically ill and years out. it is, I think part of it is trauma, like you said, and I think part of it is sometimes willful denial. know? Like, and people get angry when you bring it up. It's not a topic that feels safe to talk to a lot of people about because they don't want to hear about it anymore.
Christina Virgil (08:03)
Absolutely,
Absolutely, but I think some of that even comes down to a form of cognitive dissonance. They recognize that things aren't the way that they were before. They know that something is off, but they have convinced themselves that, it's mild, it's fine, it's no big deal, we're moving past this. So when they're presented with evidence or information that
Carrie McNulty (08:19)
Thank
Christina Virgil (08:40)
goes against that belief that they are trying desperately, desperately to believe, yes, they will respond in a protective manner for their own ego. So it's unfortunate and it's just trying to move past that. think trying to say things in a way more matter of fact, it's kind of one of the tactics I've been using is going into
Carrie McNulty (08:54)
Yeah.
Christina Virgil (09:10)
other spaces online and just like subtly tossing you know some COVID information in. Like whoa that's huh sick again.
Carrie McNulty (09:17)
Thanks.
Yeah, well, you're right. It is the elephant in the room. When you see people making their own posts about the fact that they're sick again, or they can't believe that it's, you know, they have not been well since whatever month, December, you know, November, and this is every year now, I think, unfortunately, it has become the norm. But it didn't used to be. So when we go back.
Christina Virgil (09:35)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
No, I actually.
Carrie McNulty (09:47)
Mindset of like I want it to be the way it was before I live my life the way it was before but that's a big piece that's different and You can't leave your life the way you did before because you're sick all the time
Christina Virgil (09:50)
Mm-hmm.
absolutely.
Uh-huh, and
there's no worker protections at all anymore. Interestingly, saw an article the other day. There's a South Carolina school district that is proposing paying students for for attending school per week because they've had so many absentee, like so many absences. This is their way of trying to combat absenteeism and it's
Carrie McNulty (10:28)
Ha
Christina Virgil (10:28)
wild
to me because I had a meeting the other day with one of my children's teachers and we were going over his IEP and he hasn't missed a single day of school this year. He missed one day of school last year and then prior to that, I mean, I think he's at a 98 % attendance rate for his entire high school career. I'm like, you know, he wears a mask. It kind of, it's helpful.
Carrie McNulty (10:57)
Yeah, mean, again, people say, well, you can't make the argument that one person is a study or it is proof, but it is pretty significant that your child is going to school and hasn't been sick.
Christina Virgil (11:09)
Yeah, both because they're twins
and so I have three children, but two the ones away at college and the other two are in high school. They're twins and they both wear respirator style and 95 masks. you know, obviously everything is imperfect, but it's trying to to mitigate as much as we can. It's trying to reduce the risk as much as possible and lessen the burden.
Carrie McNulty (11:27)
Yes.
Christina Virgil (11:38)
And so, but it's been working pretty well. Like we really haven't been sick. I got sick, but I got sick over the summer last year. But other than that, like we really just, we haven't been sick. so I think that's a credit to a lot of the precautions that we do take. And I'm greatly enjoying not being sick all the time, especially when I'm seeing people.
post all over the place how sick they are and how constantly sick their children are and how their children now have like the literally have posted these different immune deficiencies that the doctors haven't figured out yet and I'm like
Carrie McNulty (12:23)
Again, the missing link is the thing we don't want to talk about. I know you're not a doctor, I'm not a doctor, neither of us play one on TV, but we have enough understanding to know that one COVID infection in a year's time can impact your immune system for that entire year. Then you throw, maybe you've got two. Well, then you're even more.
Christina Virgil (12:24)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Carrie McNulty (12:46)
compromised, right? Then that makes it just opens the door for every other virus, illness, whatever, without a immune system for you to keep getting sick. just makes sense with what we know about COVID and immune system.
Christina Virgil (12:51)
Absolutely.
It's snowball, yeah. It
just, it's wild to me that, you know, we are to the point now where we have people that are advocating for getting infected with a pathogen for the sake of immunity.
I'm just sitting here like, well, that's not the best example of, you know, the cart before the horse idiom that I've ever seen play out in real time. Like, you know, you have people doing things completely in the wrong order. You shouldn't be getting infected to prevent getting infected.
Carrie McNulty (13:30)
Well, you
know, I think when people think of that, they think of something like chickenpox. But what they don't understand there is that that was what our understanding was in the 80s before there was a vaccination, right? And you would take your kids to chickenpox parties and thinking that you'll get it once and that's that. Well.
Christina Virgil (13:39)
Yeah.
Carrie McNulty (13:48)
Now we know that chickenpox turns into shingles later on down the road and that it isn't really gone and it's just laying dormant in your system and waiting for your immune system to be a little bit more compromised or something stressful to be happening in your life. And then boom, there's your shingles, you know, and there are repercussions to that. It's not, without consequence to have shingles, you know.
Christina Virgil (13:51)
Yum.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Absolutely. And I don't,
I just, I people maybe understood some of the basic principles of science a little bit better. When you have any virus, by definition, they have to hijack, they have to go into a cell in order to, to propagate, in order to, to reproduce. So they have to use you, your cells as
It's a vessel. And so when you don't have your own cells working for you and working for something else, how is that ever a good thing? How? It's just not. So I...
Carrie McNulty (14:45)
Yeah. Well, and
it's the misunderstanding of the immune system and people think you can make it stronger, like it's a muscle, right? Rather than it being like a battery that once it depletes, you can't always recharge it like an old iPad, right? You always have to keep plugged in because you can't hold a charge anymore. That's the thing that comes to mind for me. It's not like getting sick makes you, with viruses in particular, makes you better off or stronger.
Christina Virgil (14:55)
Yes!
Absolutely, Because your T cells specifically, the ones that target the intracellular, so within a cell pathogen, so there's different types of bacteria, things like that, that can cause infections or growths outside of cells. But once they get into a cell, then really only your T cells can destroy those cells because they've been compromised. They're no longer working for you.
Carrie McNulty (15:13)
Because once you can practice.
Christina Virgil (15:39)
Those are limited in number and if we're just gonna keep throwing new viruses our way, like it's not gonna work out well for the T cells because those are limited in numbers. for, we have all we have, essentially we're born with, know, those naive T cells. Now they can build a number by replicating, but...
once you become exposed to a new pathogen, that's where the issues come up because you don't have that naive T cell repertoire to kind of pull from.
Carrie McNulty (16:13)
Mm-hmm, right. And as you get older, which is why elderly are more vulnerable, right? I mean, it all makes sense as you get older and as you faced more viruses or your immune system has been through more, it's the idea that our ability, it doesn't regenerate, it's not infinite. know, it's got what you got and you got to protect it or. Right.
Christina Virgil (16:28)
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely, we gotta save the T cells!
That's kind of been my like, save them! Yes, yeah.
Carrie McNulty (16:38)
Yeah, do what you can to protect them because they're precious, you know, they're precious.
And that is why when people say viruses aren't a big deal, I think I mean, the number one thing that comes to mind again is HIV, who has ever benefited from that infection, right? It's so it's
Christina Virgil (16:54)
No, definitely
not. I think so many people have just forgotten because we have had so many wonders of modern science and modern medicine. We've seen so much protection from that that we forget the devastation of it or we never actually store that as a memory.
Carrie McNulty (17:23)
And that's a really good point. I bet you're right that because of modern medicine, we've had the benefit of much better health over the years.
Carrie McNulty (17:32)
So I found you on TikTok and thankfully so, you sort of, along with a few other people, stepped into this place of being able to provide information. Like I said, that you break it down, studies, know where to look for that. What got you into that or what made you think like, hey, I see a need here, I better, you know.
Christina Virgil (17:52)
Absolutely. So I am a cancer survivor like many, many others and because of my very colorful health history, I also have done, I did a lot of research on the immune system, like just on my own. But I also was in nursing school. I started that in the fall of 2019, right before the pandemic started, you know, so that
That also was a wild experience, but I didn't ultimately end up finishing it. about two years of it and then just, I recognized this was, that they were just dropping all of the mitigations and everything like that in the hospital and me being immune compromised like that, that would kill me. So I'm like, I can't continue with this. So, but during this time I was also trying to keep up with the virus and I was actually,
you know, having the foundational knowledge of the human body and disease and, you know, pathophysiology, I started seeing conversations on Twitter actually occurring with some of the scientists. And they started sharing studies and that's where I found Dr. Anthony Leonardo, Dr. Zahid Al Ali, Akiko Iwasaki.
just some of these are extremely notable scientists, Kimberly Prather, mean, just so many. And they were sharing information that I did not see playing out in the general public. And initially, you know, was appreciating, understanding all this, and I would verify with them that I was understanding these mechanisms correctly and getting like, yeah, they're okay. But then I'm like, God, why is everybody just...
treating this like it's nothing. And then I realized, well, we're not meeting other people where they're at. So we're all on Twitter within like the science community, which is great. But so many people at that time were kind of snubbing their nose to TikTok, the silly little dancing app. like, but if that's where people are, I mean, because you don't want to, what, degrade yourself to go down to that level of
TikTok, like they just thought it was silly. I'm like, but that's wrong. Like that's, you want to complain that the people aren't taking it seriously, but you're not reaching them. So, so I decided to go there. But then I also realized that while they are brilliant in so many ways, that might not be something that they are brilliant at is an app like.
like TikTok and not that I'm any great, great magician there, but, so that was my motivation was to try and reach the general public in any capacity that I could and to take these conversations that were largely happening within, you know, the, very specialist, you know, of, immunology and virology and all of that on, on Twitter spaces and academia and take it to people just to try and.
help with the whole gateskeeping process, essentially.
Carrie McNulty (21:18)
Yeah, because if it's just within your own circle and you're all speaking the same language, there isn't anybody there to help fill the gaps for everyday people, just regular people who might want to know more about it. And you did hit, like I said, as well as some other folks, you really did a great job of translating what you're reading into
Christina Virgil (21:28)
Mm-hmm.
absolutely
Carrie McNulty (21:40)
a way for people to understand it and then ask you questions and say, like, do I have this right? Am I following what you're saying? And have you be able to be like, OK, well, you're mostly getting it, but here's this part or that part. And a way that made it feel like you're welcoming people. You want them to know the information, right?
Christina Virgil (21:44)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely,
because that's honestly the best way to learn. Like if you have a vested interest in something, then that's how you're going to remember things better because you want to learn. So if people are asking questions, they're interested. And so that makes me excited because I'm like, hey, I can do that. You know, I'm I'm no one important, but I can do that.
Carrie McNulty (22:20)
I mean, and you and
I talked a little bit before this about the idea of just being regular people who have tried to speak about this because it's important and saying like, you're not anybody of importance, but in a big way you are because you have given a lot of information to people and can continue to do so for as long as that app exists, hopefully.
Christina Virgil (22:24)
Mm-hmm.
As long as the
science continues which
Carrie McNulty (22:46)
Well, that too, and as long as there's studies for you to access, right?
Christina Virgil (22:50)
Mm-hmm.
Carrie McNulty (22:51)
that that information doesn't get taken away or hidden somewhere or which is a very real possibility. So the work that you've done up until this point has, I really think that you've helped people and maybe it sounds over the top to say it, but you may have helped to save some people's lives because you explain things to them in ways that maybe they took mitigations when they never would before. And now they know a lot more about their bodies and how their bodies work and not only how to keep themselves safe, but other people around them.
If they choose to participate and to accept the information, you're offering something that's very valuable.
Christina Virgil (23:26)
I thank you for that. I think I often just feel so very insignificant, know, just without any of the credentials. I kind of joke that I have no credentials, but credibility. Because there are a lot of these scientists that follow me back. And they don't do that with everybody. I think they recognize that
I've been able to have these conversations with them, so that's been helpful. But then I also felt like, I doing enough to help my class solidarity, essentially? The peasants that are not sitting on cushions.
Carrie McNulty (24:11)
Yeah, but you
are, right? And you're helping the people who are open to the information. The unfortunate part is we can't make everybody be open to the information. And I'm sure that some people will see the title of this podcast and that it involves COVID and they may not be interested in all because of COVID. And that's...
Christina Virgil (24:19)
Absolutely, absolutely.
Absolutely, yeah.
Carrie McNulty (24:31)
I guess it's a chance I'm willing to take because it's something that I feel passionately about, something that I've always been interested in. Medical stuff in general and as a cancer survivor as well, it's just something that is important to me and you know, it's important to all of us but.
Christina Virgil (24:34)
Mm-hmm.
It's really important to our species,
our immune system people, it's important, especially as a collective. I don't know if that's maybe something that it's maybe hard to conceptualize, but if you have a species, an entire species where we're all getting sick more frequently, we're all diminishing our immune system by maybe just a hair.
Carrie McNulty (24:53)
Thank you.
Christina Virgil (25:16)
then that means that all of the other pathogens and things around us have a little bit more advantage over us. also I kind of think of it as rising floodwaters with like, with, I don't know, like a barrier. And we've had our strong barrier, but then as we've kind of pulled down the barrier, so maybe it's sunk into the ground a little bit that allows some of the floodwaters to start coming in. And I think that's why we're starting to see
Carrie McNulty (25:41)
Mm-hmm.
Christina Virgil (25:45)
more and more zoonotic spillover essentially with all of these other infectious diseases and it worries me. I wish people had a little bit more of vested interest. think hopefully maybe at some point people will say, you know, I'm sick of being sick all the time and or maybe when they have enough sick days and stuff at work and it's hitting them more and more financially, they'll be like, okay, I need to do something to
Carrie McNulty (25:50)
Yes.
Christina Virgil (26:14)
take care of myself and that's where I think you and me and others like us can step in and be like, well here are some things you can try to do to protect yourself. Like nothing is 100 % but they will improve your odds pretty significantly, at least in my experience and many other like me.
Carrie McNulty (26:35)
Yeah, mine as well. So I am a person who I mask when I'm out in public and I have air filtration in our house and I work from home. So I have a lot of privilege and the ability to be able to do that and I'm aware of it. My husband also masks and we don't dine indoors in the winter time and all the things that you can think of to drive the mouth washes and the nasal sprays, the things that you can try to do to mitigate.
Christina Virgil (26:44)
Yes.
Mm.
Carrie McNulty (27:04)
And you know, our lives have changed a lot because that's the voices that we're making. And that's another thing that I was hoping to talk to you about because I know that you, you know, as we talked about your kids, mask and school, and that can't be the norm, I'm sure. You know?
Christina Virgil (27:09)
Yep, absolutely.
Thank you.
No, I think they're
the only two. There might be one other child that does, but I think it's a high school. Oh, is it like 1900 students or that? No, that's the projected number. I think right now they have 1200 students. And so, that poor little mask, they're really taking a punch.
Carrie McNulty (27:45)
Right, right. Yeah, they're doing a lot of hard work those masks because
Christina Virgil (27:48)
But they're working again,
like with the absent rate, like they just have not had to miss law school. you know, that's not to say that because we know that COVID and there are other infections that could have be asymptomatic or no symptoms. you might not even, so it's not to say that that's never happened because I don't think we can ever be certain of that, but.
I also know that we have five people in our family and the chance of all five of us being asymptomatic is probably a little less than that. So it hasn't been easy though. And I know that it's difficult for them on just like the social level. It was harder, it's harder for my oldest. He wants, I don't know if it's maybe because he's not a twin, but the twins...
Carrie McNulty (28:15)
Yeah, that'd be
Christina Virgil (28:41)
They're pretty head strong and steadfast with their decision to mask. And my oldest does more often than not, but he is definitely one that is a little bit more willing to do what the rest of the crowd does. He wants to fit in a little bit more. And I know that that's hard for it. God, I know that that has to be hard for him. But I also wish he'd
sometimes knew like, it's not, it's not completely worth it. I can just hope that I've taught them enough to do like a good cost risk analysis or,
Carrie McNulty (29:25)
and yeah I mean I that's the other area of privilege right I'm in my mid-40s so I don't really care about doing what everybody else is doing anymore which is a gift and you know hey there's so many things as a woman that once you've reached this you know period of time in your life doesn't feel like a gift that is one of the things that feels like is that I am pretty unbothered and I'll just do whatever I want to do you know and I'm fine with that
Christina Virgil (29:34)
Yep. Yep.
Yep
Yeah, I don't care what people say.
Carrie McNulty (29:51)
But I think for a teenager or somebody in their early 20s, where it would be a lot harder.
Christina Virgil (29:56)
absolutely, that's
peer pressure and all that. But again, it's not to say he's terrible at it, he's probably the one that takes a little bit more risks than others. And nothing exists in a vacuum. You can't expect perfection, because that's not what this is about.
It's about just reducing the risk and doing the things that you can do, what's in your control. We know based off studies with Dr. Zahid Al Ali and up so many numerous consensus studies that show that one infection is more harmful than no infections and two infections is more harmful than one and continued. So you increase your risk of developing chronic health issues in long COVID with each.
Carrie McNulty (30:43)
What?
Christina Virgil (30:50)
infection that you get. So I recognize that at some point in our lives like we are going to be infected. Anybody that needs to seek medical care if you ever need a surgery, if you ever need you are going to be put at risk at the dentist no matter. So I recognize that we at some point probably will contract it.
Carrie McNulty (31:12)
like
40 to 49 % is asymptomatic. So like you said, at this point, as far as I know, I haven't had it, but I don't know because how would I, you know? But you're, you know, touching on.
Christina Virgil (31:20)
Absolutely.
Carrie McNulty (31:26)
something that kind of bothers me a little about when you do have to go to the hospital or when you do have to have you know the fact that you're That we're like counting that as the place where you're likely to end up having a breakthrough infection You know is upset because it's really the last place that you should think that you You should end up worrying about getting sick. Yeah
Christina Virgil (31:36)
Yep. Yep. Which is exactly health care
settings. Like why am I getting sick there? The joke is, and don't get me wrong, should seek the emergency room or healthcare when you need it in case of emergency. You go, you don't question it. But we also kind of joke.
Carrie McNulty (31:49)
Yeah.
Christina Virgil (32:03)
Avoid the emergency room at all costs. Like, I can manage it here.
Carrie McNulty (32:06)
Yeah, right.
Well, and it's a sad thing that, you know, I've even seen some people talk about prior to surgeries and local hospitals, they're things that say waivers that say there's the potential that you're going to end up with a COVID-19 infection. And I'm like, it doesn't have to be that way. It doesn't have to be.
Christina Virgil (32:22)
It's so wild
to me because when working in a hospital with nursing school, seeing how much they care about not having urinary tract infections and not having those happen and so being very careful, but then just throwing their hands up to COVID infections is just wild to me.
It doesn't, they could just, even just wearing respirator style masks would significantly improve the health outcomes. But that's a cost essentially that some hospital systems might not want to take.
Carrie McNulty (33:02)
I do think it's based in trauma a lot for medical professionals too about that that they went through so much at the initial onset of the virus that wearing a mask takes them back to a place that does not feel good which as a trauma therapist I a million percent understand I just feel like
Christina Virgil (33:05)
Yes.
Yes.
That's right.
Yeah.
Carrie McNulty (33:21)
You know, there was a time where we were all asked societally to mask up for the sake of these healthcare workers and people, they did it, right? Help protect the people that are protecting you and people they wore their masks, they did it. And now it's upsetting to hear that. Well, yeah, was part of the pandemic though. And when we realized that it was airborne, even though we tend to forget that now, when that realization came in and then it was like, hey, be sure to do this. And people were more willing at that time.
Christina Virgil (33:35)
well, depending on where you're looking.
A more, yeah. I think, so I live in an area that wasn't very open to masking, but I, in all honesty, I think in some ways that was beneficial to me. Merely because, so from the onset, you know, I was called names. Like from early, I was trying to combat that the virus is in fact real. It's, know, it's here. It does this, this and this and.
So from the in masks to work. like that's always been the struggle I've had where I've also had close friends in the COVID conscious community and COVID aware community that they thought they had these really good friendships that, you know, they had formed these bonds over, they were all masking. And then all of a sudden, they felt abandoned because everybody just kind of moved past that where mine was just kind of like a ripping off of the band aid at the onset. just never really had.
Carrie McNulty (34:44)
Yeah.
Yeah, well, and I think people were very cautious around here at first and I am I would say if you ask people that I'm close to they would say they feel like I stepped out of life that I don't do as much with them or and they're not wrong that feeling is real But I think on the other side of that I often feel like
Christina Virgil (35:00)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Carrie McNulty (35:09)
you know, everybody's out living their lives as things are normal and I can't unknow what I know so, you know, what do I do with that? It's true I'm not as active with my friendships and it's true that they can't be as active with me because we live a different way right now. And so what do you do with that? can't.
Christina Virgil (35:17)
God, ignorance is bliss.
Yeah.
Carrie McNulty (35:29)
You and I talked briefly before this about feeling gaslit a lot, or even gaslighting ourselves. Like, is it a big deal about nothing? Is it fine? Can I just do what? And then being like, no. No. Yes.
Christina Virgil (35:34)
Yes!
Do sanity checks like hold on am
I blowing this out of proportion? And then I'm like, okay, just let's look at Okay, they say that it's gotten weaker with time. Okay, so how would I prove that? ⁓ Infants in newborns when they get infected. So obviously we would see lower rates of Hospitalizations for newborns, you know getting infected now than in the beginning because it's gotten so much milder
No! It has increased! Like, I'm like, that's not gotten milder!
Carrie McNulty (36:15)
Yeah, that's not helping me to, well, yeah. But then it reminds you of why you're doing what you're doing.
Christina Virgil (36:21)
Yes, and
you're like, okay, yeah, no, the world is just gaslighting me. And I'm trying to, trying desperately just to stay grounded and know what I know and welcome the evidence of everything. But when I look at the evidence and I see the climbing disability rates, like significant climbing disability rates and excess deaths and seeing
even just so many people in the community which is anecdotal but seeing what's around me and people are not okay and I'm like it's not me like I recognize but that's that's a whole battle in itself is just kind of having to see it all play out and then having to live it all play out and just kind of on repeat and you're like man
Carrie McNulty (36:58)
No, they're not.
Christina Virgil (37:19)
It's kind of like that Cassandra complex sort of where, know, with the Greek, was it Greek gods? I can't quite remember, but they gave her the power to prophesize, but then cursed her with nobody would believe her. So.
Carrie McNulty (37:35)
Yeah,
I can see that.
Christina Virgil (37:39)
she prophesized about in Virgil's, which is something I find. I'm like, this is just a little too on the nose here, because it was Virgil that wrote it, and my last name's Virgil, and you wrote about Cassandra and about how she warned about the Trojan horse that would go in, right? And I'm like, literally one of my videos is called the Trojan horse because that's kind of what COVID does. I'm like, well, that's...
Carrie McNulty (37:46)
Yeah, right.
Yeah.
Christina Virgil (38:07)
That's the little one that knows that.
Carrie McNulty (38:10)
Yeah, it is. It can't be easy to feel like you have this information. It makes so much sense. Want to share it and have people be like, no, I don't feel like that's true. And it's like, I don't feel like that's true, which again, it's not, these are facts. These are not feelings, right? Like I don't feel like that's true. So I'm not going to listen to what you're saying. And of course you can't make anybody be ready for information. Like I said, you can't make them want to.
Christina Virgil (38:21)
Nick, no. That's... Exactly.
He just...
Yeah.
Carrie McNulty (38:37)
You know, and people really, we have gotten to such a place of rugged individualism, which is a whole other topic, right? But the idea at the beginning that was shared was, you know, mask up to protect the people around you. Well, we don't live in such a way where we care much about the people around us. And so I feel like if at the beginning they said, do this just for yourself, maybe more people would still be masked up. You know, I don't think that's necessarily a good thing, but the messaging around it hasn't maybe been
Christina Virgil (38:42)
⁓ Yep.
Okay.
People would do it.
Carrie McNulty (39:09)
The best from the start, unfortunately.
Christina Virgil (39:10)
Yeah, I
don't think that they've explained fully. Nor do I think they could though. Because when you're now having to educate the entire public and how long that takes, I think I read something that it can take up to 17 years from something that becomes formally known consensus scientific fact to then get taught, you know, instituted for the general public to 17 years. I'm like, we don't
We don't have it.
Carrie McNulty (39:41)
Well, no,
I mean, this has only been what, five and some years now.
Christina Virgil (39:47)
And we're not doing good. We're not as good.
Carrie McNulty (39:49)
We're not doing
great, and I think we're just, we're not doing great so far.
Christina Virgil (39:54)
No, I don't see
it getting much better either because I'm also in the, there are some individuals that believe that there's only individuals that are predisposed and susceptible to long COVID and I'm not necessarily of the belief. I think it's just the mechanisms of the virus that everybody is susceptible to it. It's just the number of infections that it takes to get you there.
Carrie McNulty (40:14)
Yes.
Well, yes,
and where it sets up camp or attacks in your body, which is different for every person because it's a vascular illness, which means it can go any old place, including to your brain. Which, you know, the blood brain barrier is there for a reason. You don't want things to just mosey on past that. That's not, that's there for a very good reason. But, know, it does. unlocks. It heads right on in. And when people are like, well, my only symptom is that I don't have any smell. And I'm like, eww.
Christina Virgil (40:23)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's...
No, no, no, no. Exactly.
Carrie McNulty (40:46)
actually, we sipped him with brain damage then. That's not good, you know?
Christina Virgil (40:48)
That's pretty named, yay!
Jazz hands, like, oh. And that's, you had talked a little bit earlier about trying to get people to believe you, and they're like, I don't feel like it. And it immediately made me think of Dr. Danielle Beckman, the neuroscientist that does all of the brain microscopy work, where she literally had photos of.
Carrie McNulty (41:01)
Yeah.
Christina Virgil (41:11)
COVID infecting the neuron and you can see in an inverse relationship like the number of COVID particles lighting up with the cell dying essentially. like the more COVID there was the less neuron like it was dying. And so she's literally like saying that posting pictures of how COVID beats the crap out of your neurons. And then there's still people on there that are literally like, I disagree. You're like.
Carrie McNulty (41:19)
Hmm.
Christina Virgil (41:39)
I have the pictures right here. No.
Carrie McNulty (41:44)
kind of in real time
because that's how our science is working with this as we're learning about it they're putting it out as it goes so
Christina Virgil (41:50)
in real time, yeah. And I'm fully
aware that Twitter's, like you never really want Twitter to be your source of, you know, your verified source. But when it is the actual scientists that are in, and when it's a case like a pathogen where it's every day it's doing new and new things, you recognize who people in, of significance and authority and people that are experts essentially.
Now, obviously prior to 2020, there were no SARS-CoV-2. So, but recognizing people that have been consistently right about it from the onset has been helpful. Where I think Twitter actually can be quite useful is there are timestamps. So you can go back and see, you know, what they said here and what they said there.
Carrie McNulty (42:21)
Nobody was an expert in COVID because it wasn't, yeah.
Christina Virgil (42:45)
And I think it's telling when some of the scientists are able to pull up their all of their old tweets and it's to all of these like deleted now deleted posts from other scientists that were like, no, that's not happening. But they had to go back and delete theirs. they're like, nope. So five years later, like their opinions still holding true. So I think that that's important. You you kind of go by.
Carrie McNulty (43:05)
It is awesome.
Christina Virgil (43:12)
individuals with the specialty, the expertise, and work from there. And they're saying it's not good.
Carrie McNulty (43:20)
Yeah, who studies this as their job, says it's fine. Nobody says this is better. None of those folks are saying, hey, you know what, don't worry about cleaning the air. Hey, you know what, don't worry about doing any kind of mitigations.
Christina Virgil (43:25)
No. No.
Carrie McNulty (43:34)
you know, it's so interesting to me how
Memory works how we will look back at a period of time and say I wish it was this period of time again and then try to recapture that and you never can because when a time's over it's over so when 2019 happened it's over we're never going back there it's not happening I mean you can look at what's happening in the world today the desire to have things be the way they were it never is the way it was before and people have it's like they've selective memory on that
Christina Virgil (43:46)
No.
Yeah.
Carrie McNulty (44:05)
Like the way, if you want it to be the way it was before, we were not all sick all the time. You know, we weren't, there weren't one year olds with RSV, the flu and COVID at the same time in the hospital. That wasn't normal. That wasn't a thing. And people are just accepting that instead of saying, wait, I think we could do better or it's not okay. Because I think, I fear, I don't have children, but I care a lot about what's happening to kids. And I fear that
Christina Virgil (44:09)
Hmm?
Exactly. And it wasn't being normalized.
Bye bye.
Carrie McNulty (44:32)
in 10 years from now, kids are going to say, why didn't you do this for me? Or why weren't they cleaning the air in school? Or why weren't we wearing masks? And people are going to say, we didn't know any better.
Christina Virgil (44:46)
And I think for me,
one of my fears, like, that's definitely a fear, but I think my bigger fear than that is that they won't be asking that because we will keep normalizing it so much that we're just gonna keep shifting that Overton window to where people are expecting more and more and more sickness. It's, this is just normal. I I see people saying, you know, gotta catch that immune system up. They've said that.
I'm like no, no, no, no, that immunity debt theory, no, that is not...
Carrie McNulty (45:21)
No, that wasn't real.
And also you can't make up for it. You can't eat in a way that replenishes your immune system. You can take all the elderberry vitamins or whatever that is that you want. It doesn't do anything.
Christina Virgil (45:31)
You can't get infected
with other things to germ- like, no, like you're not- like, I think they just mistake- or do they not recognize that even- even if you want to say that, you know, lockdowns for, you know, the two-month period or- or you're masking for that time decreased your exposure to some pathogens, it didn't- didn't decrease your exposure to everything.
You there's still bacteria. There's still funguses. There's still other things that spread through other manners We were still exposed to all sorts of things. We were just giving our body we were adding like a It'd be like advocating against using air conditioner filters Because you want to build up that the how much that system can handle you don't want to be Letting it take it easy by filtering out the big stuff. You're like no
Carrie McNulty (46:26)
Right?
Christina Virgil (46:27)
No, no. Help it out here.
Carrie McNulty (46:29)
Right, right. And the time period where everybody was masking was so brief when you look back at it that to assume that that would impact your immune system five years later is a little bit confusing. Yeah, I don't think it works like that.
Christina Virgil (46:35)
Yeah.
Silly, like it's...
Carrie McNulty (46:45)
It's just.
Christina Virgil (46:46)
But
so much of this is known though. Like we look at, so I come from a long line of coal miners. That's where many of these masks were originally designed were for coal miners to protect themselves from black lung. They wore them all the time. Like, so how we have gotten to this place, I just don't understand. just, I don't get it.
Carrie McNulty (46:53)
Hmm.
Yeah, well,
you know, I think it all became politicized quickly. I don't think that it was handled well, no matter who was in charge, right? And it was all in the name of let's get back to normal. But unfortunately, that again, like I said, when a time period is over, it's over.
Christina Virgil (47:21)
Yeah, absolutely.
Mm-hmm.
Carrie McNulty (47:31)
What is normal now is the fact that this is here and it's not going anywhere. What we do with it from here is a choice that we all collectively have to make individually, unfortunately, for ourselves, because there won't be any guidance telling you, here's what you should do to protect yourself. really is, which is why, again, I feel like what you do is important, because for everyday people to understand this is real, it's still hurting people, it's still killing people, it's still...
Christina Virgil (47:40)
Yep.
Carrie McNulty (47:57)
you know, causing long term, we don't know if people will recover from long COVID. We have no idea if their bodies will ever get to the place or if we will find treatments that can do what needs to be done to get people back and functioning, right? We have no idea yet because it's all happening in real time. And what you offer is the option to try some things to help prevent that from happening to people. And so I hope that...
Christina Virgil (48:24)
It's a team effort.
Carrie McNulty (48:26)
Yeah, definitely.
Christina Virgil (48:27)
We're trying with what we have available to us because again, everything's on a scale. Would I love to have the Nucat Torch with the FarUVC? I can't afford that, but that would be lovely. So there are things that I will never be able to afford or to get, but I do.
Carrie McNulty (48:44)
I'm
Christina Virgil (48:52)
what I can within reason. You know, we've made the coarsely Rosenthal boxes. Like we do that frequently. Even so, my twins have a bunk bed and they, but to give them a little bit more privacy, I have like a big curtain that goes across the sides. But then they also, because they're boys, they get hot. So I have fans on like the ends of it.
Carrie McNulty (49:00)
Yeah.
Thank
Christina Virgil (49:21)
like big box fans and then I have just one sole like MIRV 13 filter on both their box fans. So even in their little seclusion, if in the event somebody would get sick, like they're just getting filtered air into their bed. So it's just kind of coming up with solutions to problems before they become a problem, if that makes sense.
Carrie McNulty (49:21)
huh.
No,
definitely. It's mitigating to the best of the ability that you have. And you're right, not everybody's going to be able to afford the latest technology or the, but you know, places that could, hospitals, schools, potentially, right? There are places that could, could. The individual person could. Yes.
Christina Virgil (49:55)
Yeah. there are places that should. And there
are places, public spaces, government federally, like those are places that should absolutely be including this infrastructure essentially.
Carrie McNulty (50:18)
Yeah, and as long as we can keep talking about it, hopefully more people will be interested and more people will propose, rather than just accepting that this is the best we can do, which really it isn't. It's not. And it's not what we societally deserve or kids deserve or, you know, we could do better.
Christina Virgil (50:26)
Mm-hmm.
No, no, absolutely agree.
Carrie McNulty (50:40)
and still have like fun fulfilling lives. think that's also the misconception is that you can't take this seriously and still have fun. I don't know why that's.
Christina Virgil (50:48)
Thank
Which it is wild to me that that's, I mean, obviously because like the rest of society, it has like reduced our ability to take part in activities. But I mean, I still, like in the summers, I'll still go to the farmer's market and things like that. I've gone a few places, but definitely, know, wearing our mask, we can still participate in activities. It's just.
you know, trying to reduce that risk in ways that you can. That doesn't mean you have to be perfect at doing it, you know. And I always try to tell people that any mask is better than no mask. There's some that will protect you a little bit more depending on like what your goal is. And there's just so many different ones you can try. But I think that there is so much that can be done and it doesn't have to be a
you know, this is the life you were now a hermit. this, acknowledging it doesn't mean you are now a hermit. You were living here. You will never come out again without a mask on. You will never exist. Like that. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. It can be just, Hey, let's reduce it through a few steps. That's test, you know, that's, you know, mask while we're in like a family meeting, like gathering, you know, it's little things that you can do to just reduce that, that I think would show.
Carrie McNulty (51:51)
Yeah.
Christina Virgil (52:18)
some significant benefit to society. But I think that that needs to be some of the messaging too. I know that there's a lot of people that kind of expect perfection from others. And I don't think that's a fair ask, nor do I think that's a realistic ask, because, you know, we're sitting here like yelling, you need to do this. But do we look like we're living at fun of a life if we're, you know, that
angry about it so we're not going to convince anybody to do that.
Carrie McNulty (52:49)
No, no. yeah, the
expectation that it be perfect or that you never get sick or that, and that goes both ways. So if you do try to mask and you still end up getting sick, that doesn't mean you did anything wrong. And it doesn't mean that masks don't work. It just means that the viral load where you were was higher than what you could have known or the fit wasn't quite right, which can happen to anybody with your mask, right? Or it could mean any number of things.
Christina Virgil (53:01)
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Carrie McNulty (53:16)
but it doesn't mean it isn't still worthwhile to do it because we can't expect perfection on either side. We can't expect that you do mitigation perfectly and we can't expect that even if you do all the right things, you shouldn't ever get sick. It's both things. It's just like if that were true, there's so many things societally that we've adapted to. This seems to be one of the really hard things that we're kind of pushing against, but we have seat belts and car seats and...
Christina Virgil (53:21)
Absolutely.
Carrie McNulty (53:43)
There was a time in the 80s where I just get thrown in the back of the car and you roll around back there, right? We don't do that anymore because we know better, right? That doesn't mean that there aren't car accidents or that people still don't get hurt whenever they're wearing their seatbelt or you know, like it's, you do the best you can to try to avoid the worst case scenario. And that's all we're saying, right? Is you just do the best you can with what you have available to you, but it won't be perfect because nothing is.
Christina Virgil (53:48)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Like, that's all. That's all we're It's really not that bad. Like, we're not... I promise. Like, we're not gonna hurt you. Like, I'm just... Hey, this helps! Like, you're sick all the time? Well, hey! Here's a method. Have you tried, like, making coarsely roasted balls? Those are helpful, I think. Have you?
Carrie McNulty (54:08)
you
I have an idea. Yeah. Yeah.
I will actually put a link in the show notes for anybody who's interested if you want to make, you know, some air purifiers at home, know, they'll be in some...
Christina Virgil (54:39)
And those
are are so helpful because the amount of air they're able to suck in and filter and then push into. it's equivalent to, ⁓ goodness, I cannot remember the number of air exchanges per hour, but it's it's pretty high up that like it's a lot. I know that even on the CDC website, they recommend five to six air exchanges per hour. But I think this is this is pretty high. I can't wish I could recall the number.
Carrie McNulty (54:44)
.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I think it stands out in my mind, but yeah.
Christina Virgil (55:08)
But essentially you're making a cube out of the Merv 13 air filters with a box fan on top that has like cardboard shroud and it sucks everything in and pushes out fresh air and it's helpful.
Carrie McNulty (55:20)
I will add that in the show notes if anybody's interested in a link to a YouTube video that explains how to build one because.
Christina Virgil (55:25)
That
would be it. think that'd be very helpful. Another thing we start doing a little bit more is like decorating our masks with like the mask chains and things like that. Just to make it look a little bit more, I don't know, purposeful. Because there's sometimes, you know, you'll go out and people like assume that you're sick, which I mean, I don't care, like whatever, but I'm I'm living now. This is who I am. I'm just...
Carrie McNulty (55:34)
Yeah.
Great, great.
This is what I do. I'll look on Etsy for everybody too and I'll put a couple links up to people that make mask chains for your.
Christina Virgil (55:55)
Razz it as it up.
Yeah, they're not like different. I've got some like little necklace little clip
things and my own chains and I'm like that's it's not hard
Carrie McNulty (56:11)
Yeah, so it's really our takeaway message for anybody listening is really just like, it doesn't have to be perfect, but you can still mitigate again. And if you are somebody like Christina and I who have been living this way and trying to be cautious, you're not alone. And it can be lonely at times and it can feel like, what am I doing? Nobody else is doing this. And you're doing the thing that you need to do for you and for the people around you.
Christina Virgil (56:25)
Mm-mm.
Ha ha ha!
Carrie McNulty (56:38)
Really, you know, whatever kind of community we can build, we all need each other. And that's the truth of it. We just need each other. We're interdependent beings and how you take care of each other and your health, know, everything we do impacts one another like it or not. So.
Christina Virgil (56:42)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
And humans have always been that way. Like, we've always cared for others. even look at infants, like, they depend on the mother's care to be taken care of. If we were not meant to be creatures like that, we wouldn't, we would lay an egg and leave. we... But we do need to care for each other, and that's part of it. We make each other stronger and more resilient.
Carrie McNulty (57:16)
Yeah.
Christina Virgil (57:23)
when you protect one another and even if it's just doing it for your own reasons for protecting your own health, then that's okay too. That's putting your oxygen mask on and saying, know what?
Carrie McNulty (57:36)
And it will have a secondary benefit, even if unintended, of helping other people around you too. But if we have to go the individualism route, do it for yourself.
Christina Virgil (57:40)
100 %
Yeah, absolutely. Be selfish, you know? Say,
you know what? I value my life and my health. I'm not gonna get sick.
I will not be be one of those prone to illness. I will try and do what I can to protect myself in the divine.
Carrie McNulty (58:02)
do what everybody else is doing. I'm going to do my own thing. You know, or even if you're just like, hey, I'm having a hard time paying my bills and I'm sick all the time and I can't come to work and I'm worried about losing my job. That's also a reason to do it. Hey, there's so we've really uncovered so many great reasons.
Christina Virgil (58:09)
you
huh.
Every give me away like I will word
it. We will figure this out. I will tell you how it benefits you like
Carrie McNulty (58:25)
Well, I appreciate having you come on and it was fun and I thank you for what you do and I'm glad that I found you on TikTok. And I will also put Christina's TikTok handle in the show notes too, in case you want to follow her. Like I said, she does a really good job of finding studies that reputable scientists, doctors have done and breaking them down in a way that, you know, you don't have to have that kind of mind to understand it.
Christina Virgil (58:28)
It was so much.
Carrie McNulty (58:51)
So I will add her too, so if you want to follow her, please do.
Christina Virgil (58:57)
And thank you so much. I know you've said that you were grateful for me, but I can't tell you how much I am grateful for you in this community as well. Like for anything I have given, I have received and then some that just such a wonderful group of people. And I am grateful for everything you've done as well. And thank you for inviting me and thinking of me.
Carrie McNulty (59:16)
Well, thank you.
You are very welcome. And so until next time, everybody, I'll have another episode in a couple of weeks. Take care.
