Messages to Our Younger Selves with Courtney Alesandro

In this episode of Carrie's Always Talking Carrie and Courtney Alesandro explore the concept of reflecting on their younger selves and the messages they would share with them. They share insights, advice, and humorous anecdotes about what it was like to grow up in the 80's and 90's. It's a light-hearted episode that invites you to think about what you might tell your younger self as well. 

If you have a story you'd like to tell, send me an email at carrie.always.talking@gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you.

You can also find me on Bluesky- @carrie-is-talking.bsky.social 

YouTube- @carrie-always-talking

Transcript

Carrie McNulty (00:01)

It's Carrie's Always Talking and I'm your host Carrie McNulty. This is the podcast all about stories and connections. I believe that when people share their stories with one another, it's the best way to build empathy and humanity. And that's something I think we need a lot more of in the world today. ⁓ This week's episode, I'm having one of my dearest friends who's joined me for a couple of previous episodes of my first season, Courtney Alessandro. She's on with me this week and probably will be again in the near future.

And today we're covering what messages would we give to our younger selves. It's just a funny, silly little episode where she and I had a lot of giggles and a good time. And so hopefully you'll enjoy listening to that. We give our younger selves some practical advice. ⁓ And then we also talk about, you know, how would those younger versions of us have responded to somebody coming, floating in from the future and giving them this advice about themselves. So. ⁓

very non-serious episode and very fun to make. If you are new to listening to the podcast or if you have been listening, as always, I appreciate you. If you are willing to leave a review or ⁓ ratings wherever you listen, I always appreciate that. It helps the podcast to be noticed. And as always, I'm grateful anytime somebody wants to spend a little time hanging out with me. ⁓ In the next episode that I do in two weeks, it's probably gonna be a solo episode.

But I am looking for more people to come on. if you are interested, remember that you can do so anonymously. Reach out to me. My email's in the show notes. You can also get in touch with me via the YouTube page or the Blue Sky account, which will also be in the show notes. One final thing before we transition to the episode, I'm going to continue to request that if you are somebody who is willing and able, that you join me in making a donation to your local food bank. I'm doing that every month here.

I think that food insecurity is something that's a real thing and is going to continue to be an issue. And so if there's any way that you can help with that in your local community, I'm going to request that you join me in lending a little bit of help if you can. All right, I'm going to go ahead and get into this week's episode with Courtney and I will catch up with you all in another couple of weeks.

Carrie McNulty (02:32)

Hello Courtney. Welcome back.

Courtney L Alesandro (02:33)

Hello!

Oh, thank you! Good to be back.

Carrie McNulty (02:39)

I love this, that when we record together and it's like I get to have my best friend on, but then we also talk about things that are, I think, pretty interesting.

Courtney L Alesandro (02:49)

think they're fascinating. think all of our conversations are fascinating. We cover the breadth of humanity, really.

Carrie McNulty (02:53)

Yes, if we were...

everything really, and in one conversation we could start in one place and end up somewhere totally different. We're pretty, we're enthralling.

Courtney L Alesandro (03:02)

Absolutely.

We are.

Carrie McNulty (03:08)

At least to us. ⁓

Courtney L Alesandro (03:09)

Ha

ha!

Carrie McNulty (03:11)

So I got this idea that I was like, know, what would we, what would we say to our younger selves if we had a chance to go back and talk to them? And this is obviously not a new concept. A lot of people do social media posts about this, but I thought who better to ask than one of my dearest friends, one who's lived a life. What would she say to, you know, younger Courtney, let's say like,

15 or 16 year old Courtney, you know? And when I think about 15 or 16 year old Carrie, what messages do I wish that I could give to her? What wisdom do I wish that I could impart on her? So, you know, we got to talking about that and thought, yeah, this might be something interesting. It might be a little sweet, might be a little funny, might be a little practical.

Courtney L Alesandro (04:03)

Absolutely.

Carrie McNulty (04:07)

So if you would be so kind as to paint me the picture of what was 15, 16 year old Courtney like.

Courtney L Alesandro (04:14)

Yeah, well, ⁓ when we started talking about this, I was thinking about her and I was thinking about, ⁓ you know, what would I say to this person? it took me many reflections to get to the point of thinking, gosh, the 16 year old Courtney would tell me, ⁓ she wouldn't tell me to fuck off.

Carrie McNulty (04:21)

Mm-hmm.

Okay, okay. We should be respectful.

Courtney L Alesandro (04:43)

She would be...

she'd be frightened. So she wasn't really disrespectful. I mean, maybe some teachers would disagree with that assessment. My recollection of her was she was just in fight or flight mode and she wanted experiences really just

Carrie McNulty (04:48)

Hmm.

You

Hmm

Courtney L Alesandro (05:16)

wanted experiences.

would see her now as ⁓ being almost frantic, you know, in trying to figure things out. I wanted to get through things very quickly. I thought that there would be an end. once I, and I don't even know what it was, like once I had a boyfriend, had a...

Carrie McNulty (05:30)

Okay.

⁓

Courtney L Alesandro (05:52)

college degree once I had all of these things that ultimately I never really wanted, but ⁓ felt like I needed to collect my beans, right? And then I would be okay. ⁓

Carrie McNulty (05:58)

Thank

So do you think that then ultimately then it was stability?

Courtney L Alesandro (06:15)

Yeah, there was an absolute… Yeah, I felt very unstable. think that's probably… Sure, unstable. Yeah, let's go with that. Sure. I was… ⁓

Carrie McNulty (06:17)

I'm wanting that.

I said looking for stability, don't know excuse me.

Courtney L Alesandro (06:36)

so ill-equipped and without a skill. I had no skill in communication. I had no skill in getting myself.

out of situations that I put myself in that would have been ⁓ kind and respectful and loving to everyone involved. And I'm not even talking necessarily dangerous situations, I'm talking situations with people who were my peers. Not a skill in the world. So I'd get myself into situations and my MO was to be zoinks.

Carrie McNulty (07:15)

Mm-hmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (07:26)

I gotta go. I gots to go now. Because boy I just made a mess didn't I?

Carrie McNulty (07:33)

That's

in the fight or flight the flight comes into play.

Courtney L Alesandro (07:37)

Really, I was more in flight. You were probably more in fight. I hung out in flight.

Carrie McNulty (07:42)

yeah.

yeah. Yeah, I was always in fight. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (07:45)

⁓

So then I was thinking about what in the name of God would I tell this girl? And I went through all the platitudes that we all would tell folks. You know, it's okay. You're gonna be okay. You don't need external validation. And this 16 year old version of me would...

Carrie McNulty (07:56)

Yes, right.

You're gonna be okay.

Courtney L Alesandro (08:13)

She couldn't even begin to comprehend, like, this advice. She'd be like, what?

Carrie McNulty (08:22)

What do you mean, external validation? What does that even mean? ⁓

Courtney L Alesandro (08:24)

You know, you're safe. Sure.

Sure, thanks. That's awesome. Appreciate it. So, ⁓ I don't think she would be rude to me because I'd hoped she'd see me as somebody who's trying to be kind, but she'd certainly see me as somebody who was out of my mind.

Carrie McNulty (08:33)

Okay, yeah.

Who is this fake ghost lady from the future telling me that I'm safe?

Courtney L Alesandro (08:52)

That was safe.

What does that even mean? How do I even experience that? What are you talking about? ⁓

Carrie McNulty (09:04)

Mm-hmm. So yeah,

she would be curious maybe, little perplexed.

Courtney L Alesandro (09:11)

I think she would, I mean, if we're using the version of like, I floated in and just found her in the kitchen. It was like, hey girl, hey. I've been watching you. You're kind of not doing great.

Carrie McNulty (09:25)

Continue.

Courtney L Alesandro (09:33)

I think I would have taken it and then put it into a little box somewhere in my head and then been like, I gotta go buy a pack of Camel Lights and go drink in my friend's basement now, cause... Yeah. Good to know. Great.

Carrie McNulty (09:41)

you

Thank

Right. Right. Gotta do what I was normally gonna do. This is good to know.

Well, you know, I think that is... Well.

Courtney L Alesandro (09:59)

I'd also tell her she had great tits.

Which she might not have fully appreciated. No, somebody needed to tell her.

Carrie McNulty (10:03)

Those are not right. Those shouldn't go to waste, you know, and you're

right. Hey, comparatively, you're doing above average in this area. Yeah. But I think that you're being like, well, I just kind of put that aside. I think it's interesting that in your mind, and it's probably true that sharing that information, let's say you floated down to her in the kitchen at age 16 and shared that wouldn't have changed.

the choices that she was going to make and hopefully would have just given her a little peace of mind that I'm still going to do all these crazy things, but it's going to turn out okay. Right. Somebody told me it's going to turn out okay. So I'm definitely going to that basement later and probably going to drink my face off. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (10:42)

Yeah.

Probably what's gonna happen.

Yeah, I I think the only thing I could have told her is it's gonna be okay. You are gonna be okay.

Carrie McNulty (11:04)

It works out.

Courtney L Alesandro (11:05)

It works out. It all works out in the end.

Carrie McNulty (11:08)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (11:11)

Not at all like you expected it, but it's okay.

Carrie McNulty (11:14)

Yeah, and

to be fair, you weren't really sure what you were expecting or what you wanted. So just so you know, it's, you're good. Yeah. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (11:24)

But it's, yeah, it's gonna be fine.

That's really what I think I would tell her.

Carrie McNulty (11:30)

There are some ups and downs. I'm not going to lie to you, but

Courtney L Alesandro (11:32)

Yeah, I mean, it's gonna be bumpy.

Not lying to you.

Carrie McNulty (11:39)

But you've got what it takes to handle it, whether you realize it or not. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (11:42)

Yeah, you know, I think

it's normal to, at our advanced stage, to have that thought of...

Wasted time. Wasted time thinking about weight or boys or ⁓ how credit scores work. There's so much wasted time and energy where we're our own worst enemy. And I think it's appropriate at this age to look back and go, gosh, I wish I didn't.

Carrie McNulty (12:00)

Mm-hmm.

you

Courtney L Alesandro (12:26)

waste all this time on this nonsense. But I think you gotta go through that nonsense to get to where you are now.

Carrie McNulty (12:28)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely. think

to your point, if I somehow appeared to 16 year old me, hair down, middle of my back longer, flannel shirt wearing, ripped jeans, Doc Martin chain wallet wearing me and said, you know, it's all gonna work out.

Courtney L Alesandro (12:42)

You

I think you'd punch her in her face.

Carrie McNulty (13:04)

I don't think I'd punch her because there's also a part of me that would also would have been very interested in anything that seemed a little woo-woo or out there. I would have been like, I think I should listen to this message. I think this is serious, right? I think this is meant just for me and this means something and it's serious. However, would it have changed my behavior? That would matter very much on how I delivered that message to me because if I would have said it in a way that made it seem like I didn't have a choice,

Courtney L Alesandro (13:11)

Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (13:32)

I would have done the exact opposite of whatever that person, whatever future me was telling 16 year old me. I would have been like, you're telling me that's what I'm supposed to do? I'm not gonna do that. And it isn't even like, to this day, if somebody says you should watch the show, I will never watch it. I don't know why I am the way I am. But, so it would have been.

Courtney L Alesandro (13:35)

Hehehehehe

you

Isn't there some

diagnosis about like persistent demand avoidance or something like that?

Carrie McNulty (14:00)

Oh yeah, yeah, demand avoidance,

I wouldn't say I'm pathological in it, but I do have some demand avoidance, I do. And it's really, I think growing up in a situation where you felt like you had no power and no choices really made whatever choices I could make very important to me. And I like to think even at that age that I knew a lot about life. I think.

Courtney L Alesandro (14:26)

You were wise in Tyrone.

Carrie McNulty (14:28)

Right, I was wise beyond my years in my town of 3,000 people. I was in fact not. And yeah, I don't want to spoil the outcome for anybody here, but I, yes, I had been through a lot even by the age of 16, but I certainly did not have it all figured out. And I, like you, although my presentation was different, very much wanted to have it all figured out because that was going to be my ticket out of my situation.

Courtney L Alesandro (14:36)

Dear gentle reader, indeed she was not.

Mm-hmm.

Carrie McNulty (14:57)

So it

was very important for me to ⁓ know what was going on and to be in control of the situation. Did I make some bad choices? Yes. Was I defensive a lot and probably hurt many people's feelings and said some very mean things and acted in ways that I am not proud of? Yes. I also did that.

But I was also not disrespectful, so I don't think I would have been disrespectful to an older version of me. I think if somebody, if I had floated in and said, I think it's, you know, it's going to be okay, and there's definitely going to be some things and you're going to make, you're going to intergenerate intergenerational in your family, make some of the same choices that other people make, even though you didn't want to do it, it eventually ends up being okay. But above all,

I think it's the more practical things that we were talking about that I would have liked to shared with 16 year old Carrie and number one being get the fuck out of the tanning bed. You don't need to be there. It's not for you.

Courtney L Alesandro (15:53)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, like...

Maybe when you float it down, you could have like research in your hand.

Like research from 2012 that says standing booths cause cancer.

Carrie McNulty (16:11)

Right. It turns

out these are not healthier for you than the sun. They lied. Okay.

Courtney L Alesandro (16:16)

Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna have you, I'm just

gonna leave this jamma right here for you. I just need you to read it.

Carrie McNulty (16:20)

Right.

It's gonna be confusing because you don't yet know how to read a scientific study. You will learn, okay? But just trust me, just because you can tan, eventually doesn't mean you should. At all the time. You shouldn't do it. Also, stop using cooking oil and laying out in the sun. That would also be a recommendation I would give to younger me.

Courtney L Alesandro (16:32)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of time

in the sun. A lot of time plucking the eyebrows, a lot of time in the sun.

Carrie McNulty (16:52)

What I wouldn't give to have a normal eyebrow.

Courtney L Alesandro (16:54)

Yeah, I would also ⁓ stay with the piano. I really would. I would like to know how to play the piano now. And I would like to know Spanish. Two things, I gave up like a hot potato.

Carrie McNulty (17:01)

Aww.

You're like, nevermind. Yeah. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (17:14)

Yeah, I'm so old, I

had a smoking section in high school. so yeah, actually ⁓ any language club, it was outside.

Carrie McNulty (17:24)

Like outside or inside?

yeah, we had a smoking section outside along the hospital road.

Courtney L Alesandro (17:29)

Yeah.

It could be like, damn that geometry, right?

Carrie McNulty (17:36)

Whoa, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I didn't smoke, but there were plenty of people that did. ⁓ You know, grow up with your parents and smoke constantly.

Courtney L Alesandro (17:44)

Yeah, I would have gone to language

class instead of, yeah, I would have done that. ⁓ Really would come in handy. ⁓

Carrie McNulty (17:49)

yeah. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (17:58)

What else would I have? What other practical things?

Carrie McNulty (18:02)

Well, I think your comment about like, don't worry so much about your weight. That would have been nice. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (18:08)

⁓ yeah. Absolutely.

Absolutely, girl. It's fine. You're fine.

Carrie McNulty (18:16)

Yeah.

I mean, it would have been nice to give the message of decentering men, but I don't think that would have worked as well. That sentence didn't even exist.

Courtney L Alesandro (18:26)

No.

No, I mean, the sentence didn't exist. The concept didn't exist. ⁓ I was still having conversations with my parents about what a good job for a woman is, which would have been a teacher, which you see me around children. It's not good.

Carrie McNulty (18:46)

No.

Courtney L Alesandro (18:54)

You

⁓ I don't know if everyone knows that we together met in a place where we were working with young people, teenagers. And the best I could do with them was just tell them weird animal sex things, see if they didn't want to beat me up.

Carrie McNulty (18:59)

⁓

Well, you know, I think thankfully the population

we were working with were teenagers, but they were all eating disorder teenagers, which meant that they tended to seem much more mature than the average teenager would. So that made it easier for me to converse with them because I'm not good at talking to little kids. one other thing I would probably tell me is that people are going to continuously

underestimate you. ⁓ And that that is something that you can figure out how to use to your advantage if you need to. ⁓ That sounds a little bit maniacal. It's not meant to be. It's just like you're and that I'm smarter than I've been led to believe because I got the message quite often that I was stupid. yeah, yeah, that I actually do have abilities and

Courtney L Alesandro (19:49)

No, but I get that.

Not that smart, yeah.

Carrie McNulty (20:06)

when I'm interested in something can excel at it. And also when things aren't so chaotic, you can focus a little better.

Courtney L Alesandro (20:16)

Thank you.

give myself this advice and I think she might have heard it, like at least filed it away, which is spend some energy figuring out what you're actually anxious about and what your family is anxious about. These were very separate things and I think that added to a lot of confusion because I internalized

Carrie McNulty (20:25)

Hmm.

They're separate, but yeah, yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (20:49)

things I should be anxious about which I'm not anxious about at all. And everything else that I actually am anxious about never gave myself space, but they always lived in me. So I think it's a worthy exercise.

Carrie McNulty (20:54)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, well, and I think in a roundabout way, sort of just letting that younger you know that the stuff that your family carries isn't necessarily what you will need to be worried about or focused on for you. But that's as you've used the phrase for me many times for different things. It's a red herring.

Courtney L Alesandro (21:28)

It's red herring. Red herring. Wear your retainer. I definitely tell her to wear her retainer. Otherwise she has to have conversations with dentists for the rest of her life about a Vizalign.

Carrie McNulty (21:41)

⁓ are you still having your p- they asking you those questions?

Courtney L Alesandro (21:44)

They do, they

ask me and I'm like, girl, no, no, I don't want to miss a line. Like that ship has sailed.

Carrie McNulty (21:48)

I

Which

is so funny for me because I would have needed braces when I was younger. I had a lot of crowding, but we didn't have money. That wasn't a thing. So when I got to be an adult, I had terrible TMJ. I was able to get Invisalign and to me that was worth celebrating because it was like, I'm taking care of myself. Like I'm doing something I should have had when I was younger. Now Invisalign did not exist then, but you know, get what I'm saying.

I was able to address something that's always been a problem and I was like, hell yeah, I'm going to get Invisalign as a 40 year old woman at the time. Yeah, I'm doing it. So, and I do wear my retainers.

Courtney L Alesandro (22:23)

Peace.

see. So what you're saying is 44-year-old Carrie is smarter than 16-year-old me. Great. Yeah. It's a low bar, Carrie. Low bar.

Carrie McNulty (22:40)

Yeah, I mean, impressive, right? Yeah.

But I just think it's funny that you're like, I don't want to do that now. That seems crazy. And I'm like, I got to get Invisalign.

Courtney L Alesandro (22:46)

you

See ya!

I think that's interesting, right? Same thing, different viewpoint. Exactly, it's not about the invisaline

Carrie McNulty (23:01)

Right, yeah.

No, it isn't. It's not about

that thing. It's about taking care of yourself for things that maybe weren't taken care of then. It's like knowing, I want to tell her, you'll figure out how to take care of yourself in a better way. You will. Like, you'll figure it out. You think you're doing good at it now, you're not. No offense, but...

Courtney L Alesandro (23:13)

Mm-hmm.

Or not.

Exactly. You think you're worldly. You're not.

Carrie McNulty (23:31)

Yeah.

No, you're not. You live in central Pennsylvania. You're not worldly.

Courtney L Alesandro (23:40)

I think I wish I took.

more advantage of opportunity.

Carrie McNulty (23:51)

Mmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (23:51)

Maybe I would have told her to slow down and when there's a good learning opportunity and experience ⁓ to take it.

Carrie McNulty (24:06)

Mm-hmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (24:12)

Again, my recollection of that time in my life was just, you know, my brain was just going 90 to nothing.

Carrie McNulty (24:20)

Yeah. Yeah. Did you? Were you somebody that always did well in school?

Courtney L Alesandro (24:26)

No.

Funny story, no I wasn't. No, school for me was so much different than it is now. We were allowed to miss 30 days of school before getting in trouble. And if you were there before fifth period, ⁓ you were considered present for the day.

Carrie McNulty (24:40)

Hmm.

Really?

Courtney L Alesandro (24:56)

Yes, ⁓ so I didn't attend a lot of school is what I remember. ⁓

Carrie McNulty (24:59)

Thank

Courtney L Alesandro (25:08)

⁓ Recently, I saw an obituary for a friend of my, well, he was initially a friend of my brother's, but he was a friend of both of ours. So he's a couple of years older than me and he had a really deep voice. ⁓ he, there was an entire year where he pretended to be my father and called the school and just be like, Courtney's gotta go. Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (25:17)

Mm.

Courtney L Alesandro (25:38)

So no, I didn't do well. ⁓ But so the point of this is no, I did not do well. But it also at that stage, fortunately, or not that stage, that time in our history, I don't think had the ramifications it does now. So I was still.

Carrie McNulty (25:43)

No, I'm being honest with you. I did not.

Mm-mm. No.

Courtney L Alesandro (26:05)

This is a whole other story. I was still able to go to college. But no, I never paid any attention to it. I didn't think I was, I didn't start realizing that I was smart and a good student till I went to nursing school, which was at age 27. So it took me to age 27 to

Carrie McNulty (26:14)

Yeah, didn't care.

Wow. Hmm.

figure that out that you like.

Courtney L Alesandro (26:35)

to figure that out that I was like,

no, I actually am good at this. I like science.

Carrie McNulty (26:39)

Yeah. And I like it.

Right. Yeah. I, as well, I mean, I went, but I didn't really do anything. I just always believe it or not, went to talk to people. That was what I was going there for. And I didn't, I just, from the time I was in elementary school, didn't really care about doing the assignments that I was being expected to do.

Courtney L Alesandro (26:48)

No.

You

Carrie McNulty (27:06)

fourth grade I cared because I had a good teacher fifth and sixth grade did okay but in high school I also I just don't I guess I didn't see why it mattered you know like there were some classes I did fine in but certain ones like math or algebra or you know I didn't really try very hard I just wanted to get through it much like your mindset

Courtney L Alesandro (27:27)

⁓ no.

Carrie McNulty (27:31)

I still find myself thinking, I just have to get through this. I just have to get through, why? I don't know. What's on the other side of it? Not sure. Still think that sometimes, but I'm sure I looked at it that way too. I just have to get through this to get onto the next phase of my life. I'm not really invested here. don't, this I didn't foresee and looking back, I'm not a person who was like high school where that was the best years of my life. I just wanted to get the hell out of there as quickly as I could. So.

Courtney L Alesandro (27:52)

Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (27:58)

I didn't realize in undergrad I very mediocre or you know in college I miraculously got into what would be considered the community college branch of Penn State you know close to our house did that for a couple years and then went to main campus. It wasn't until grad school and getting cancer at the same time that I figured out that I actually was smart.

Courtney L Alesandro (28:25)

Look at us!

Carrie McNulty (28:26)

Look! And that went back to grad school at 29.

So, you know, that's crazy.

Courtney L Alesandro (28:36)

Yes, school was

often weird. Like I didn't, you had said something, ⁓ well, your reflections of like elementary to high school. ⁓ And I just was thinking there was.

Carrie McNulty (28:49)

Mm-hmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (28:55)

so much that happened to me. And again, I think this was the time in our history and this is the way children were being raised. Nobody told me anything. Like I had no idea what was happening.

Carrie McNulty (29:03)

Mm-hmm Nobody told me why it was important and I think

that's it if somebody would have said hey Here's how this is gonna impact you or why it's important. I would have probably tried harder, but I nobody did I was just like what the hell are we doing here? This is very boring I would rather be doing this thing over here. So that's what I'm gonna do. That's where my energy is gonna go like

Courtney L Alesandro (29:26)

Yeah, what I recall is like in sixth grade, I was just doing my thing, doing my thing, whatever that thing was. I don't really know what my thing was in sixth grade. But then all of a sudden, I was having to do these classes during lunchtime that didn't make any sense. I don't know why I was doing these classes with a small group of people. And then when I get into seventh grade,

Carrie McNulty (29:36)

It's great thing.

Yeah, yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (29:55)

They got me in the gifted classes. I have no idea how any of this happened. I have no idea why I was in any of these classes in sixth grade. No clue. Well, spoiler alert, I didn't know. I didn't show up to school a lot in seventh grade. And then one day I was no longer in those classes. Nobody told me anything. we're just.

Carrie McNulty (29:56)

Whoa!

to pull her out. ⁓

Courtney L Alesandro (30:25)

Like, I don't know what happened there. Yeah, and it didn't make enough of an impact on my mother that I could ask her at this age. Like, I'm like, what was that? She's like, I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm like, Like, could somebody please tell me what that was? No, don't know.

Carrie McNulty (30:41)

Yeah.

Nope, it's over now. We don't know what

they having you do. They could have been having you do anything. We have no clue.

Courtney L Alesandro (30:51)

have no idea.

All of a sudden they're like, Courtney, you know, like I get why kids are kidnapped. Courtney, go to this van and do some math. I'm okay. ⁓ I don't know why. I don't ask questions, I just do it.

Carrie McNulty (30:57)

Yeah.

Okay, for some reason they had me meeting with somebody in a van out in the parking lot and I just thought that's where I go to school now. I don't know. Yeah

Fine sure, whatever. Yeah on the days I'm there. I'll go to the van whatever

Courtney L Alesandro (31:17)

Sure.

Carrie McNulty (31:20)

Yeah. No, I had a tougher start to school. You know, my brother, everybody, all the teachers that had him, he's three years older, so all the teachers that had him, they were all like, good, we're getting, you know, his younger sister, because he, you know, did great academically, he could read when he was three. Well, that's what happens when a parent pays attention to you. By the time I came around.

I'm amadextrous. I use both hands for many things and I had a harder time learning to read because I couldn't decide what hand to use. So I was in some reading support and stuff like that. But also I, it was when I decided that I was like, this is what I want to do that I graduated from that. It was sort of me that pushed it. My mom didn't.

read with me and I'd get summer stuff sent home and I just never do it. Nobody sat down and did it with me. So it was like, well, you just have to decide that you care about this. And you know, the weird thing that it took was that in fourth grade, my teacher had this big claw foot bathtub in the room. one of the like, not hooked up or anything. Yeah, it was not hooked up. It was just in the room in the back with a bunch of pillows and blankets and it was like cozy.

Courtney L Alesandro (32:24)

In the school room? Okay.

Nice.

Carrie McNulty (32:32)

and was

a place that you could go and read as a reward. And I liked that. So I really started to kick up my interest in reading then. And then it turns out that like, my comprehension's great. I can speed read. This is amazing. Transform, go forward a couple of years. I found Interview with a Vampire and I was hooked. Hooked. And ever since then, I've been reading fantasy. But anyway.

Courtney L Alesandro (32:57)

There you were.

Turns out you

just like a good bath.

Carrie McNulty (33:02)

Yes! Turns out I just wanted to be cozy, right? I just wanted to... You never know what it's gonna take. But yeah, all to say school was confusing.

Courtney L Alesandro (33:14)

confusing time.

Carrie McNulty (33:15)

It was a confusing time.

Courtney L Alesandro (33:18)

had no idea what was going on most of the time. Just no clue.

Carrie McNulty (33:21)

But by the time

I made it to grad school, I definitely understood what I was there for. So that's good. Yeah. Yeah. And then you have gone on to get other advanced degrees. You like learning so much. So.

Courtney L Alesandro (33:34)

I

do, like that book learning. I like that book learning.

Carrie McNulty (33:36)

like a book.

And I wonder

what 16 year old you would have said to that.

Courtney L Alesandro (33:46)

⁓ I think she would be excited. I think she would have been. ⁓ Because, this is so ridiculous, I remember looking at all the kids in the AP English class and be like, ⁓ I wanna read those books. I I didn't. I wanted to want to read those books. Because nothing was preventing me from going out and buying Wuthering Heights.

Carrie McNulty (33:49)

Yeah.

huh.

be clear, I didn't eat them.

Courtney L Alesandro (34:16)

But it wasn't happening.

So I liked the idea. But I mean, I could have done that. I don't think my parents would have prevented me from, you know, this is the best times, it was the worst of times, right? So I think she would have liked that.

Carrie McNulty (34:27)

just playing.

could have read them on my own time, but I wasn't good.

Hmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (34:52)

I don't know. Again, I think she would just be confused, like having no clue. There's no clue how to get to that point. Like, how do you get to Columbia?

Carrie McNulty (35:02)

Mm-hmm.

Courtney L Alesandro (35:08)

I remember wanting to go to like Sarah Lawrence and stuff. Sarah Lawrence being like, you don't go to class.

Carrie McNulty (35:11)

really

We don't even have a GPA to look at here.

Courtney L Alesandro (35:20)

We don't,

how about you, do something. So I don't think, ⁓ you know, it's all on its own time. I, and going back to the sort of the original thought of this time in this conversation is what would you tell your younger self? I think to get to the point where I am now, which feels really,

authentic to me. It feels like this is who I am and I'm kind of settled into like, I'm this person. I had to go through a lot to get there. And if I didn't go through all of that, I don't think I would ever gotten to this point that is authentic.

I remember once I had a therapist, well, I had a therapist and I was telling her like, what if I'm weird? What do I do if I'm weird? And she was like, yeah, what if.

And 30 years later, yeah, gee, I don't know what you're gonna do if you find out you're a weirdo.

Carrie McNulty (36:30)

That would really put you in a pickle.

Yeah, actually...

Yes.

Courtney L Alesandro (36:43)

So, you know, and that took me 30 years to get to the point of being like, okay, I'm cool with that. Because I think I'm really interesting and I think I'm all these other things that I really like that are classified as, or certainly I would have classified them as weird, you know. And that might be a reflection on the younger version of me. ⁓

Carrie McNulty (36:49)

⁓ yeah!

Well, I mean, the younger versions of us ultimately wanted to fit in, know, wanted to be unique enough, but not unique enough that you feel like a weirdo outsider. Now, as an older, again, the privilege that comes from being an older woman in society, yeah, there's a lot of things that aren't so great that might come with that. But the other things are being, it's more comfortable to be authentically yourself. That you're not looking to fit in in a way.

Courtney L Alesandro (37:19)

yeah.

Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (37:37)

that you're worried about being judged if you are different or if you have you know there's certain things that I'll say I like where if somebody would have asked me you know I don't even know if that's true because I was kind of ornery so I would have probably been okay with liking whatever I liked but maybe not to this degree it's very freeing to be you know in your midlife and not have to care so much

Courtney L Alesandro (38:05)

Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (38:05)

what other people think. So that's nice. But it's just the thing is you can't have it all, right? You can't be, you can't have it all. have, you get to this stage because you've earned getting to this stage. And that is a gift. You can't be here and also know all of this and be 16 or know all of this and be 20. You can't, you don't get to do that. So.

Courtney L Alesandro (38:26)

Right.

And for me and in my story, going through some, sometimes that maybe we're a little dangerous or we're a little perilous or ⁓ we're a little, you know, on the edge of whatever has allowed me at this age to not sweat the small stuff.

Carrie McNulty (38:51)

Well, that is one thing that I will say is if I if I'm talking to John and I referencing you or if I say, you know, I talked to Courtney about it. She's not really worked up about it. Then we know that it's like, doesn't care. She's not concerned. It's not a big deal. Right. You reserve caring or being worked up about things that are very worthy of that. You're not easily riled. You don't. not like, no.

Courtney L Alesandro (39:02)

You

Yeah.

Yeah, I have ⁓

a co-worker, a friend ⁓ who has a teenage daughter now and... ⁓

She's, my friend is first generation American. And so she has a very strong immigrant sensibility about school and behavior. And her daughter ⁓ skipped one class. And my friend was just beside herself with worry and projecting. And it took me, it took us a while in the conversation for me to realize like,

Carrie McNulty (39:50)

no.

Courtney L Alesandro (39:57)

how worried she was and what she was worried about because I was like, whatever. She's 13, she missed one class. She's not destined for a world of criminality. She's fine. Yeah, we're fine. Why don't you ask her why she skipped a class and you're gonna find out there was probably some really tender reason.

Carrie McNulty (40:01)

I don't have any affiliation here.

Right. We don't need to send her to scared straight. It was one class. Yeah.

Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (40:26)

So, yeah, I don't sweat the small stuff. That and I work with dying people, it gives you perspective. Yeah.

Carrie McNulty (40:34)

Well, true. Well, and before that, you were working with eating disorder people.

So again, like knowing when it's appropriate to be concerned about something versus, you know, if you were if you didn't have that, you would be worried about every single thing that somebody was doing all the time, you know, with that population.

Courtney L Alesandro (40:42)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, obviously this line of conversation can be very serious, so I'm going to take it to both very serious and absurd. And I don't know if your listeners know that we were in workplace shooting. ⁓ well, spoiler alert. We were. It was really upsetting. ⁓ But one of our coworkers

Carrie McNulty (41:09)

No, I have never mentioned that. We were.

Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (41:22)

had

often said, you know, I won't panic unless I see Courtney panic. And she had held that through many years of our working. And when that announcement went overhead, she saw me come out of my office and she was like, you panicked. And so I panicked. And then we spent the next four hours and it locked in a bathroom together. So I it's a good barometer for people.

Carrie McNulty (41:31)

huh.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it was, it was intense.

I do think that situation was worthy of some ⁓ yeah, some panic. Yeah.

Courtney L Alesandro (41:51)

Let's see see me worry

Yeah. I'll panic

when it's appropriate.

Carrie McNulty (42:01)

that was in fact appropriate. Yeah, that was a very long day.

Courtney L Alesandro (42:05)

That was a long day.

But again, it you to a point, right? Very long, very sad, very tragic day. So I don't wanna sort of make it flippant about us, but we were there. ⁓

Carrie McNulty (42:09)

But yeah.

Well, no, but we were there.

Making it about us would be like, we were safe at home and just heard about it. No, we were actually there. So, well, I think that we got down to the bottom of some of the things that we would share to our younger selves here today and talked about, which isn't always talked about, how those younger selves might respond to it. So I think we did our job pretty thoroughly here.

Courtney L Alesandro (42:30)

⁓ yeah.

Yeah.

Another job completed. The world would be a poorer place without us.

Carrie McNulty (42:55)

Totally, that's

the biggest takeaway of all of this, but thank you for being silly with me and making sort of a lighter episode and having fun and always being willing to go wherever I want to go. ⁓ Well, so everybody else, I'll be back in another couple weeks with another episode and until then, hope everybody is well and ⁓ Courtney, as always, thank you. It was great.

Courtney L Alesandro (43:07)

⁓ always.

Thank you.