Carrie's Always Talking
The podcast all about stories and connection. Every other week there will be stories from people just like you, or perhaps it will be YOU! Stories are a part of the foundation of life, and they are one of the main ways we learn about one another. Hearing someone share their experience can be healing not only for the person sharing but also for those listening. You might laugh, you might cry, but you also might also learn that we're more alike than you think.
Carrie's Always Talking
From Trauma to Resilience: Susan Snow's Journey
In this episode of Carrie's Always Talking, Carrie interviews Susan Snow, the daughter of a slain LAPD detective, who shares her profound journey from trauma to resilience. Susan recounts the tragic day her father was killed, the immediate aftermath, and the long-term effects of grief and trauma on her mental health and family dynamics. She discusses the importance of finding the right therapist, the role of vulnerability in healing, and the power of sharing stories to help others. Susan emphasizes that healing is a journey, not a sprint, and encourages listeners to take responsibility for their own healing process while recognizing that they are not alone in their struggles.
It's a bit of a longer episode, but it's well worth a listen. There is some discussion of gun violence, so listener discretion is advised.
Susan's website: https://susansnowspeaks.com/
If you have a story you'd like to tell, send me an email at carrie.always.talking@gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you.
You can also find me on Bluesky- @carrie-is-talking.bsky.social
www.youtube.com/@carrie-always-talking
Carrie McNulty (00:01)
It's Carrie's Always Talking. I'm your host Carrie McNulty. This is the podcast all about stories and connections. I believe that when people share their stories with one another, it's the main way to build empathy and humanity, which is something I think we need a lot more of in the world today. This is episode 11 of season two, and I will have a guest on with me. And I think that you will, I think really be riveted by this person's story. So I'm looking forward to sharing that with you.
If you're somebody who's new to the podcast or if you have been listening, thank you so much. I always like to make it a point to say that anytime you spend with me, I'm always grateful for that. If you're listening and you do like what you're hearing, please rate and review the podcast wherever you're listening. helps it to be noticed. If you're somebody who's interested in coming on the podcast to tell a story, please reach out to me. The best way to get me is my email and that is in the show notes.
Also, the one other thing I've been asking of folks listening is that if you are able to, to join me in making a donation to your local food bank to help out your local community. Food insecurity is a real thing. It's an issue that's going to continue to get worse. And if you're able to help in any way to support your community, please do so. My guest today is Susan Snow and
She is the daughter of a slain LAPD detective, Thomas C. Williams, who was ambushed and killed on October 31st, 1985, when she was 17 years old. She's a published author, speaker, and coach. And she does have a book called The Other Side of the Gun, My Journey from Trauma to Resiliency. Susan was a really great guest to have on. Like I said, her story was impactful.
And I think that you will really be riveted by what you hear. If you are somebody who has a history of gun violence or if that's something that's hard for you, would say listener discretion is advised. ⁓ yeah, I think I'll just go ahead and get us started. And I will be back again in another two weeks with another episode.
Carrie McNulty (02:33)
Hi Susan, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Susan Snow (02:36)
Thanks for having me.
Carrie McNulty (02:39)
I'm excited to hear your story and I know that my audience is really going to be interested and moved, I think, by what you're going to share. So I'm excited for you to tell us your story.
Susan Snow (02:51)
Absolutely. Well, ⁓ my story begins, you know, I will tell everyone that my life as a teenager was pretty normal. Except for the fact that my dad was a cop.
Carrie McNulty (03:06)
Maybe
Susan Snow (03:08)
dating was interesting, you
know? So the minute I tell a boy that my dad was a cop, they were like, oh, what? So at 17, pretty normal, right? The one thing I can say is that being the daughter of a cop,
Carrie McNulty (03:15)
See.
Susan Snow (03:27)
In the beginning, when he was a street cop, I was younger and I thought, you know, well, daddy can get hurt on the job because he's out there on the streets and stuff. But as I got older and he became a detective, I had this like false sense of security. I felt like because he was a detective, he was a robbery homicide detective. That was coming in after the fact.
So we basically had a desk job, which, you know, I think the worst thing I thought he could get was a paper cut, you know? But that all changed on Halloween of 1985. It was a Halloween day and my dad was actually getting ready to go to court and testify.
in a case that he was the lead detective on. And I had talked to him about going to a party that night and wanted to go with my then boyfriend and my friends. And he said, nope, school night, not happening. Shut me down. And so I went off to school. The plan was that he would go after court, go pick up my six year old brother from school.
Carrie McNulty (04:36)
you
You
Susan Snow (04:52)
and then come home and then by then I had cleaned the entire house, you know, and I was gonna schmooze my parents into letting me go to this party. So that was my plan. And my mom came home ⁓ shortly after the phone rang and I thought it was for me, of course, being a teenager.
Carrie McNulty (05:05)
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely, right after school it's gotta be for you.
Susan Snow (05:17)
It's gotta be
for me. Who's gonna call my parents? So I ran and I picked up the phone and it wasn't for me. ⁓ It was a lady from my brother's school and all she said was that there was a drive-by shooting and my dad was involved.
Carrie McNulty (05:20)
you
Susan Snow (05:34)
My mom came into the room and I immediately handed her the phone and I tried desperately to hear the conversation, but I really couldn't hear anything. All I could do is look at my mom's body language and it told me everything. ⁓ She got off the phone, she looked at me and said, we're going to the school. So we went to the school, we parked. Now this was evening time after five o'clock, so it was quite dark outside.
And the kids at this school, ⁓ it was a church school and they got out on the backside of the school. So we parked in the parking lot, which is kind of in the middle of the school and we started heading towards the back. And even though it was nighttime, it was so lit up. It was like daylight in the back of the school because there were so many police officers. ⁓
cruisers and the lights blaring ⁓ and there was the ambulance that was sitting in the road. And we kept walking and my mom and I both glanced over and saw my dad's truck. So we started to run towards the truck. As we got closer to the truck, we saw glass on the ground and as we rounded the corner there he was partially covered up. ⁓ And I watched my mom collapse to her knees and start screaming.
⁓ All I could do is just freeze. I just stood there and froze and I was not able to comprehend what I was seeing. So what I ended up doing is just hyper focusing on the ambulance. And my mind kept saying, why isn't anyone helping him? Where is everyone? And a little bit.
Pretty quickly, I would say, ⁓ two officers grabbed us by the arms and escorted us back into the school, into an office, and there was just, it was such a chaotic scene. There was just so much going on. I sat down in a chair in the office and my mom got taken aside by the detectives. At this point, I had no idea where my brother was. I didn't know if he was hurt. I didn't know if he was at a hospital. I knew nothing.
no information whatsoever and I'm trying to navigate all of the stuff that's around me and figure out what's actually happening.
Carrie McNulty (08:03)
I'm sure time had to feel like it had completely stopped and yeah, that's totally
Susan Snow (08:08)
It was,
yeah, and I was still not understanding what I just saw. And as I was sitting there on the chair, there were two ladies that worked at the school and they were talking to one another. And the one lady said that my dad was deceased. And that's when it hit me. My world completely shattered and cracked. And I wanted to get up out of that chair and run.
Carrie McNulty (08:14)
Mm.
Susan Snow (08:37)
out of that room and away from the scene as far as I could go. But my entire body felt like it was filled with cement. I couldn't move. And as I was sitting there, my mom came up to me and she said, I'm sending you with a neighbor. Now I know that, you know, I wanted to run out of that situation. I would have run far, far from the scene, but.
Carrie McNulty (08:45)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Snow (09:03)
The kid part of me still felt like I needed to be with my family unit. I needed to be with my brother, I needed to be with my mother, and unfortunately I didn't get that. I did get sent to the neighbor's house. And upon arriving, what my normally quiet neighborhood turned into was something I wouldn't wish on anyone. The police, the law enforcement,
Carrie McNulty (09:09)
Of course.
Susan Snow (09:34)
that was everywhere up and down the street. There were helicopters overhead. And by then, this is such a huge story that the media had ascended into the neighborhood. So as I'm sitting ⁓ in her living room, this poor neighbor of ours who had known my family for many years,
was trying to cope and navigate all of her own feelings about what he had heard and just what was going on in the neighborhood. And then here she had the teenage daughter completely inconsolable in her living room. And I had been dating this guy for three months and all I wanted was my boyfriend at that point. So she called him at work and she didn't tell him a whole lot.
When he showed up at the porch, he said to me, grab your purse, grab your jacket. What hospital is he at? Let's go, you know, that kind of thing. And I just couldn't say the words. The more persistent he got about leaving is when I finally blurted it out. He's gone. And he said, what do you mean he's gone? And I said, he's gone. He's not at a hospital.
And at that point, I watched my 19 year old boyfriend crumble in front of me and we sat on the porch and just sobbed because we didn't know what to do. We didn't know where to go. We didn't know what to do. In the mid eighties, there was no talk of mental health.
Carrie McNulty (11:20)
Certainly not. No, no. I didn't mean to laugh there, but no, absolutely not.
Susan Snow (11:25)
No, you have a right to laugh because
it's true. And there was very little, if to nothing as far as resources for kids. ⁓ The only thing that was known about PTSD back then was that it was called shell shock and it was attributed to people coming back from war. So
Carrie McNulty (11:36)
No, no, no.
Susan Snow (11:48)
all of the feelings I started to feel after that night. I actually, unbeknownst to us, the reason why we had so much law enforcement coverage in our neighborhood was because unbeknownst to us, we too were targets. Yeah, yeah. And we didn't know that, that didn't come out until years later in the trial, but
Carrie McNulty (12:07)
so you were also in danger.
Susan Snow (12:16)
We, if my mom knew she never let me in on it, but ⁓ yeah, so when I went home that night, I just wanted to hide. I did the kid thing. I wanted to run into my room and hide from everyone. So that's what I did. My boyfriend and I just went into my room, shut the door, and we just hoped to God that nobody would open the door or ask questions or any of that.
And it didn't happen. Nobody checked on me. Nobody. didn't. And even when my boyfriend left for the night, I just stayed in my room. didn't come out. And I didn't sleep that night. And I could hear my brother crying in his room. So I knew that he was physically safe.
Carrie McNulty (13:06)
He was home.
Susan Snow (13:08)
But I had nothing left inside of me. I just couldn't get, I couldn't even pull my head off the pillow to go and console him. And I just assumed my mom would be there for him. And before you knew it, it was daylight and I looked outside and I still had the police presence there. I went and saw my brother around 11 a.m. and I was able to hug him.
and tell him I loved him and that we were going to be okay. But that was also when I was told that my dad's last thing that he did on this earth was to save his son. So it was just a lot all at once. And it took them six days to find the men that were involved. This was a planned out assassination of my father.
and it was in retaliation since he was the lead detective and he had testified.
So six days I had police in front of my house and back of my house. I had plain clothed police officers who were bodyguards and went with me wherever I went. So I went from this normal teenage life and the next day it was just something completely surreal.
Carrie McNulty (14:34)
Yeah, you thought you were going to go to a Halloween party.
Susan Snow (14:36)
Right. Yeah. And, you know, it was, I was afraid to tell people all the feelings that I was feeling at the time. And because I was having all of the PTSD type things, I was anxious because part of it was that my dad, I always felt safe. My dad was a cop.
Carrie McNulty (14:38)
Yeah.
Susan Snow (15:03)
So he was my safe place. He was my voice of reason. He was a very present father, very present. My mom, not so much. So her and I struggled in our relationship and he was the go-between.
Carrie McNulty (15:22)
and then without him.
Susan Snow (15:24)
and now he's gone. So I'm trying to navigate that relationship and my own feelings around losing him. So I had anxiety through the roof. I had suicidal ideation, even though I didn't know what it was. The depression hit me pretty hard. I wasn't sleeping at night. I felt like I was just walking through a cloud, which just...
existing and not living.
it felt like I wasn't important in this scenario because obviously with the whole circumstance of my dad saving my brother's life and my brother being six years old, all the focus went on him and so be it, right? I understand that, but it took, it took the media two days to figure out he had a teenage daughter.
And so it was just this, this feeling of I wasn't important that just perpetuated in my head. just kept in my head. and I got to the point after the funeral and all the hoopla and the people left, they felt they finally caught the guys that were involved. So they were apprehended and we didn't have the security anymore.
LAPD came to my mom and they said, want to pay for a therapist for all three of you. And what little I knew about therapy, I thought if you go to a therapist, you're nuts. I mean, that was my teenage brain, right? And...
Carrie McNulty (17:05)
Yeah, yeah. Well,
and to your point, nobody in the 80s went to therapy. Certainly not high school kids.
Susan Snow (17:14)
No,
no. And so I, but I was also dealing with all of these things and I didn't know how to verbalize it, nor did I want to because I thought if I told people how I was feeling, they'd throw me in the loony bin and call it a day. so I just shut up. I didn't say a word, you know, and
So my mom followed and told me that I was going to therapy and I said, okay, because if you pushed me in a direction, that's the direction I would go. And I went and saw this gentleman and in hindsight,
I don't believe that he was educated in trauma and I feel like he didn't want to dip his toes in the water, in the weeds. He didn't even ask me any questions that would allow me to open up and tell him what was going on. In fact, he totally... ⁓
Carrie McNulty (17:57)
Mm.
Susan Snow (18:18)
He just went the opposite way. He kept our therapy sessions very shallow and very general. So it was always talking about my relationship with my mom, my brother, my boyfriend in school, and that's it. And every week, you know, that I was feeling these feelings and these emotions, I kept saying, today's the day. He's gonna make me feel better.
Carrie McNulty (18:26)
no.
Susan Snow (18:47)
And it didn't happen. I saw.
Carrie McNulty (18:49)
No,
just further solidified that you don't matter.
Susan Snow (18:52)
Yeah,
and I saw him for a year and at the end of the year he looked at me and said, Susan, you're a well-rounded young lady and you're going to be fine for the rest of your life and I don't need to see you anymore. And I literally walked out of that last appointment thinking, okay, I've snapped. I'm crazy.
I'm going to have to live with this stuff for the rest of my life and figure it out on my own because not even a professional can help me.
Yeah.
Carrie McNulty (19:31)
talk about the exact wrong match for you at the time that you needed. ⁓
Susan Snow (19:36)
yeah, it was definitely. I did learn a lot later about that. But at the same time, you know, I was living in fight, flight or freeze. And what I ended up doing, which is not healthy.
But I started to mask and I used the mask of what people would say to me. So if someone said, Susan, you're so strong. ⁓ Susan, you're so brave. That's the mask I wore. And people on the exterior never saw what was going on in my interior ever. They saw the strong Susan. They saw the brave Susan.
and inside I was a mess. ⁓ And, you know, I, in looking back, because I was unhealed, there were a lot of times where I was in relationships with people, friends and people that didn't treat me very well. And because I didn't have
full support at home. I had my boyfriend, of course, but I did not and was not able to recognize when things were unhealthy around me. And so what I ended up doing is becoming a people pleaser. And I started to mold myself into the people that these people needed me to be. And that included my own mother, right? I had to be
Carrie McNulty (21:15)
Hmm.
We had to find value somewhere, right?
Susan Snow (21:23)
Right,
I had to like weave myself into something that you know wasn't right and even you know I married the boyfriend. We just celebrated 40 years yesterday.
Carrie McNulty (21:38)
Congratulations!
Susan Snow (21:40)
can't even wrap my head around that. both of us just scratch our heads. We're just like, holy cow. but yeah, I mean, we got married and we did all the things that we were expected to do. and I don't believe either one of us was ready mentally, not ready, but we,
Carrie McNulty (21:58)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Snow (22:09)
both were kind of in the same mindset. It was like, okay, we're gonna do what we're expected to do. We're expected to go get married. So we're gonna get married. And so we got married and then we had two kids, my first child three years later and my second one. And at that point, I had just been kind of sick and tired of looking behind me all the time and just...
everybody knowing my story, everybody knowing who I was, just, you know, looking at me like I was this 17 year old girl, I was going to fall apart all the time. And we decided we were going to move and we decided to move to Colorado.
And we moved here in 97 and at the time I was working as a hairdresser. I was working in a salon that was very close to Littleton, Colorado, and on April 20th of 1999 I was working that day. I was doing a client and I went took a break and went into the back room and my colleague had turned on the TV and up popped the full coverage of the Columbine shootings.
and I had flashbacks.
Carrie McNulty (23:28)
Of course, yes. Hello, all this stuff that's still waiting for you.
Susan Snow (23:32)
I
had flashbacks, I started to have a panic attack, I turned bright white. And my colleagues didn't know my story, they had no idea what was going on with me. And remember, I was told that's gonna be fine for the rest of my life.
Carrie McNulty (23:46)
Right,
you're good. You're good to go. You're well-rounded. See you later. Yeah.
Susan Snow (23:49)
So I had no
idea what was happening to me. All I knew is that I felt like I was spiraling again. And the only thing that I could do to save myself is to put that mask back on. Just hide behind that mask and tell myself, you know what, this has nothing to do with me. I'm gonna be fine tomorrow. Everybody around me for the rest of the day was in tears, was angry.
had all of the emotions, but I finished my clients like nothing, nothing touched me.
Carrie McNulty (24:25)
You were totally dissociated then. Yeah.
Susan Snow (24:27)
And
I, I, I didn't the rest of the day, I did all my clients. I've got finished and I walked out that door and I headed to my car and everything came flooding back. And it was worse because, one, I didn't understand what was happening to me. And two, and now I'm feeling all of these feelings that I used to feel.
But now I'm a wife and I'm a mom and I've got responsibility and all of these other things. And I stopped sleeping. I was having panic attacks in the middle of the night. I was very depressed. And within a couple of days of seeing my husband seeing me do this,
He stopped me at the door one day and he said, you have two choices. You either go get help today or I'm putting you in a hospital.
And at that point I was terrified because I was literally having this mental fight with myself because part of me didn't want to feel this way anymore. And the other part of me was, you're a mom and you can't leave your babies.
Carrie McNulty (25:49)
And I'm guessing another part that's the masking part that was always like we know how to pull this back together Why can't you just pull this back together, but it was you couldn't access that I would guess at that
Susan Snow (25:56)
Yeah. No,
I couldn't. was too far gone, really. And I honestly, because I had been masking for a couple of days, I just felt like I kept telling myself, this has got to get better. But it wasn't. And it wasn't until he literally put that ultimatum in my face where I was like, OK, I give up. OK, white flag.
Carrie McNulty (26:21)
Yeah, you can't hide
from him. You can't hide from him. He was there.
Susan Snow (26:22)
Yeah, I I Yeah,
and he was with me from the very beginning so it wasn't like he didn't understand where this was coming from and in that you know, grateful because He'd saved my life that day and I I'm very grateful for that, but I ended up making an appointment with a physician
Carrie McNulty (26:35)
Okay.
Susan Snow (26:53)
initially and went in and he put me on antidepressants because that's what they do and then he handed me a business card and said I want you to make an appointment with this therapist and I literally laughed in the man's face and I said I've tried this 14 years ago did nothing for me what makes you think it's gonna help this time and he said you honestly don't have a choice
Carrie McNulty (26:59)
Mm.
You're like, I'll read this again. ⁓
Susan Snow (27:23)
And I said, you're right, I don't. ⁓
Carrie McNulty (27:27)
of you that so easily gives in. are like, you have to do this and you're like, okay, yeah, I guess I'll do it.
Susan Snow (27:31)
Yeah,
I'm tired. I got to do this, you know, and clearly I can't do it by myself. So I was glad to make this appointment because she actually specialized in severe trauma. And within the first three minutes of sitting down with this therapist, I knew that it was different. She finally was asking me the questions that I had longed to hear many years ago.
Carrie McNulty (27:47)
Thank goodness.
Susan Snow (28:01)
that allowed me to feel like she was a safe space. And because she allowed me to feel that way, I was able to be vulnerable with her. And I was able to go back to when I was 17 and explain everything to her from then and then what I was currently dealing with. And she looked me in the face after listening to everything and she said, Susan,
everything you've gone through since you were 17 is normal because you have PTSD. And I looked at her and I was really confused because I thought, wait a minute, I'm not in the military and I didn't go to war. So what do you mean? And she said, well, what you need to understand about trauma is that anyone who goes through any kind of trauma can experience PTSD. What you need to understand though,
Carrie McNulty (28:35)
Yes.
Susan Snow (28:57)
is PTSD doesn't just go away. It's something you learn to manage. And in that very moment was when I saw hope. When I felt like, my God, I'm not nuts. I'm not crazy. I can heal from this. And this is my person. This is the person that is going to guide me and help me to heal from my trauma.
and I was just so grateful.
Carrie McNulty (29:26)
And
how wonderful for that 17 year old part of you that really had somebody asking her, hey, tell me what happened to you and you feeling safe enough to actually share it. How can you for that part of you? ⁓
Susan Snow (29:30)
Yes.
Yeah. Yep.
it was huge. was, it was, I, I always, I always describe it as like the sky opened up and rainbow shot out because there were a couple of reasons, you know, one, I finally had answers as to what was going on with me and two, that I could heal from this. And I was just, I was so grateful to her for that.
Carrie McNulty (29:50)
Yeah.
Right, and I think that's awesome that even in the later 90s, you were able to get that therapist. Just the right person at the right time. How lucky was that?
Susan Snow (30:15)
Yeah, she was
⁓ yeah,
I mean, sometimes it takes you three and four people. you know, it's, this is one of this is part of my message, though. This is something that I gleaned from this experience is that there are therapists out there that lump all of us into one group of trauma. But everybody's trauma is different. The modalities are different.
Carrie McNulty (30:37)
Mm-hmm.
Of course.
Hmm.
Susan Snow (30:44)
The journey is different. so I always tell people the one thing that I was very grateful for was that she did specialize in my type of trauma. So she knew the road ahead and the modalities that she was going to utilize with me. And that's really important that whatever you've gone through in your life,
Carrie McNulty (31:02)
Thanks
Susan Snow (31:13)
whatever trauma that you have experienced, that your therapist, your spiritual advisor, your coach, whoever you feel that safe space with, that you can be vulnerable with, needs to be educated in that type of trauma. And...
Carrie McNulty (31:35)
And if
they are not, can I just throw this in here? Because I am a therapist, and I am trauma therapist. Who is he? a certified IFS trained. If that person, if they do your intake and they hear your story, any therapist listening, if it isn't something you specialize in, please refer that person. Because that's really what it's all about, is getting your experience what they need. And it's OK if it's not what you specialize in.
Susan Snow (31:40)
Uh-huh.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah!
Right.
It's not that you're bad. It's just that you're just not the right fit for that particular person. And there's nothing wrong with that. There's no shame in that. There's no judgment in that. ⁓ I don't even judge the gentleman in the very beginning because he didn't know what he didn't know.
Carrie McNulty (32:05)
Not at all. Not at all.
Not all.
But boy, it's hard. I gotta say, Susan, it's hard to...
Susan Snow (32:27)
therapist you were like what I
know I get that a lot with therapists I do but at the same time like I I think in talking to especially talking to law enforcement people I feel like maybe he was a little bit of CYA in this situation so
Carrie McNulty (32:44)
Mm.
Susan Snow (32:51)
You know, it could have just been that they grabbed any therapist and said, here we go, right? Just to check a box kind of thing.
Carrie McNulty (32:58)
Yep. We
go through therapy. Here's this. Yeah. Here you go. Yeah.
Susan Snow (33:03)
check a box kind of thing. but you know, I feel like it's important and I think it's important for ⁓ people seeking therapy that you do interview your therapist and make sure that they understand you have the right to do that. And I don't think people understand that. Like, but what my message to you is that your healing is your healing. It's not the therapist healing, it's yours.
Carrie McNulty (33:21)
Yes.
Susan Snow (33:32)
So you've got to take responsibility for your own healing journey.
Carrie McNulty (33:38)
Absolutely, and nobody
should be offended if you find that it isn't a good fit. You know, you have the right to, I think because of the power differential that is there, even though it shouldn't be, right? The dynamic shouldn't be that the therapist holds more power, but they do because people are vulnerable when they're coming in, right? And we have to respect that.
Susan Snow (33:42)
Right.
Absolutely. Yep.
Carrie McNulty (33:58)
And so people get maybe afraid to say, I'm not sure if this is the right fit or maybe it isn't exactly what I really like them as a person, but I'm not sure they have what I need.
Susan Snow (34:05)
Yeah.
Yeah,
I mean, I even handle that in my coaching. You know, I may not be a fit for everyone, and that's okay. But you know, these are things that I lessons that I gleaned from my experience, and that I try to educate people on. Because I have had conversations with people that say to me, therapy didn't work.
Carrie McNulty (34:12)
Mm-hmm.
Thank
Susan Snow (34:33)
And I always say to them, you didn't find your person. And sometimes that takes a little bit. I was grateful to find mine in too. And from there, she sent me to other people for other modalities down the road, things that she didn't.
deal with or whatever. I will say that she was ahead of her time a little bit ⁓ because she was using breath work, she was using tapping and these are that were just starting to get out there and she thought it was such a cool thing to do that she was like, let's try this. ⁓
So I tried a lot of different modalities in the very beginning and you'll love this. The way she handled me was she knew I was a hot mess, right? She's like, you got a lot going on girl. And so she asked me, you know, what is the one thing right now that's imperative that we address? And I said, I'm not sleeping.
Carrie McNulty (35:31)
you
Yeah.
Susan Snow (35:47)
and you know that if you don't sleep and your nervous system is all kinds of out of whack, it's harder for you to move through things and to deal with them. So she said, okay, that's, that's our goal right now. That's what we're going to deal with right now. And I said, okay. So she said, have you ever journaled? And I said,
Nope. And she said, well, you can do it in different ways. Like some people do it by writing. Some people do it through music and some people do it through art. So she said, what's your flavor? And I said,
Carrie McNulty (36:20)
you
Susan Snow (36:36)
I write and she said, great, take a pad of paper and a pen, put it by your bedside. And before you go to bed, I want you just to write everything that's swirling around in your head on that paper. And the funny part of that is that I'm like,
And I went through this when I wrote my book too. I'm all about like punctuation, spelling. So I had to ask her that question. I was like, ⁓ is that important? I don't, she goes, Susan, she said it doesn't even have to make sense. Just get it out. And I said, ⁓ okay.
Carrie McNulty (37:11)
We'll do some greatest later.
Susan Snow (37:20)
I just was so skeptical. I was like, how is that going to work? Like, okay, whatever. And that night I went and because I would start to feel my anxiety start as soon as it got dark outside. And I was like, oh God, now I'm gonna have to go to bed.
I did it the first night and I wrote everything that was in my head and I got a couple hours of sleep, a couple hours of sleep and I thought, okay. And the next night I did it again and I got a couple more hours of sleep. And by the third night I slept like a baby and I woke up in the morning going, this did not work. There is no way.
Carrie McNulty (38:03)
I just had to write? Ugh. Yeah.
Susan Snow (38:05)
⁓ And so the next week when I went and saw her she said, how did it go? And I said, ⁓ I've been sleeping for four days.
Carrie McNulty (38:18)
Well, your poor nervous system probably just wanted to sleep and sleep and sleep.
Susan Snow (38:22)
Yeah, yeah,
but all the stories in my head were keeping me up, you know, and so I was just like, how can something so simple, be so powerful as a modality? Like, how is that possible? So then, you know, we just we went and we attacked each thing.
the anxiety and, know, and so I learned breath work and box breathing and those techniques. And I, you know, she, was into the EFT tapping and I learned that and I still utilize that today. and I utilize that with my coaching clients as well, because I think it's important.
Carrie McNulty (39:04)
Okay.
Susan Snow (39:10)
I was just so grateful to find this person and be able to, what I felt like she wasn't when you were talking about, sometimes people feel like you're more superior. I felt like she was a partner for me.
Carrie McNulty (39:25)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, that's how it should be.
Yes.
Susan Snow (39:31)
So
I felt like she was right alongside of me in this journey. And, and that's what it's supposed to feel like you're right. And if it doesn't feel that way, cause I tell people this, if you are not able to be a hundred percent vulnerable, like step off that ledge and let another human being inside to help you.
Carrie McNulty (39:52)
Hmm.
Susan Snow (39:59)
your healing isn't going to happen. And, you know, and I talked to addicts about that too. Because a lot of times with addicts, they address the actual addiction and the present time reason why they're doing that, how they're feeling that they really don't go to the core. And I'm confused about that, but
Carrie McNulty (40:01)
Mm-mm.
Mm-hmm.
Susan Snow (40:26)
The more I've talked to addicts, I've heard this that like, I'll give you an example. I met a woman who happened to pick up my book and she started reading it and she said, ⁓ I've never gone through trauma like that. I feel so bad. I said,
Thank you. And we started talking and she was headed to rehab for the third time. And I said, why are you going to rehab to heal, you know, who are you healing for? And she said, you know, the last two times I went for my children.
and this time I'm doing it for me. And I said, yay, bingo, Yahtzee. she said, maybe this is a little trauma. And I said, what? And she started to tell me how she was molested as a child from the age of three to the age of seven by her mother's boyfriend.
And because this was an everyday occurrence for so many years, and then it was happening to her cousin and her brother and all this, that she did not realize that this was trauma. And I looked her in the eyes and I said, that's 100 % trauma.
Carrie McNulty (41:44)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Snow (41:53)
And what you need to understand is this, it was not your fault. And it was the other person's fault. It was the other person's choice to do that to you. It was not your fault. And she just looked at me like deer in the headlight, right?
Carrie McNulty (42:14)
Well.
Susan Snow (42:17)
I said, Have you told anyone your story? And she said, no, you're the first person I've ever told. And I thought, my God, like, first of all, I am so taken aback by that. I felt grateful in that moment.
that I gave her that safe space. And sometimes things come out of my mouth where I don't know where they come from.
Carrie McNulty (42:45)
You
Susan Snow (42:47)
Cause I feel like I'm just a conduit for the message. But I told her, when you go back, I want you to tell everyone that is a professional in that building, your story. because that is your key.
That is your core. If you can heal that sobriety is going to become easier for you. And she just had tears in her eyes and she thanked me and I sent my book with her to rehab. But it seems like that I just realized, gosh, like, in my healing, I
Carrie McNulty (43:17)
Yes, ma'am.
Susan Snow (43:34)
have opened up my mind to and my heart to understanding what is healing, like how do you get there? And I love what I do. there are times where I was like, am I really doing the right, like, I'm...
and the universe throws her at me. You know what I mean? It's like, you are a coach, whether you want to understand it or not. But I, and I love it. I love making a difference in people's lives, whether I am standing on a stage, speaking my truth.
Carrie McNulty (43:58)
⁓ What do think about this situation? Let's see how you...
Thank you.
Susan Snow (44:18)
and telling my story and telling my message and being able to affect one person in the audience. I've done my job. ⁓ And so I, you know, and that's, I love stages by the way, like I, I love it. I love being out there. I love connecting with my audience and it's just, there's something about it that fills my soul.
Carrie McNulty (44:28)
Yeah.
Well, I think now that you've found a way to heal, it sounds like there's a part of you that wants everybody to feel as good as they possibly can.
Susan Snow (44:53)
Absolutely.
And God knows with the environment we're in right now, I can't tell you how many conversations I've had where, you know, I, whether they're unhealed or they're in their healing journey or whatever, that a lot of the things that are going on right now are bringing up, and I hate the word trigger, but it is triggering people.
Carrie McNulty (45:17)
I'm
immensely triggered right now and it is a lot to do with the lack of control that people are feeling on a day-to-day basis. If you've grown up in a situation where you have faced abuse of any kind or you didn't have a say in your choices, you will be immensely triggered right now. And I just feel like called to say that if you're somebody who is feeling that way, it doesn't mean that you are not a skilled human being or that all the things that you have learned don't matter right now. It just means that
you're not alone
Susan Snow (45:48)
And you are a human being point being like your point. Yeah, we are human beings and we have human being feelings and experiences and you know, and that's kind of what I've been talking to people is just trying to be a bridge for them. And I understand God knows I have days to write.
Carrie McNulty (45:50)
Yes, you're a being.
Susan Snow (46:13)
I just have the tools. know even writing my book, it took me four and a half years to write that book. And the reason it did is because I had to relive every experience and every emotion and everything. I had to be 100 % vulnerable and authentic to tell the story.
Carrie McNulty (46:25)
oh yes
Susan Snow (46:37)
and there were days where I had nothing left. had nothing left. And those are the days that I had to learn to give myself grace with no guilt. and just say to myself, I can't cause I'm also a practicing realtor. I can't talk to clients today. I'm not going to be a hundred percent. If I'm not a hundred percent, I'm not talking to you.
Carrie McNulty (46:47)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Susan Snow (47:04)
I had to take those days and do something that gave myself joy, re-centered myself. And so a lot of that was taking walks, sticking my feet in grass, just like really trying to center myself, meditate, whatever it was that would bring me back.
to self, that's what I did. And so that's what I'm telling people to do right now when you feel completely overwhelmed. Do something that gives yourself joy. Start a gratitude journal. Think of three things you're grateful for every single day. And I'm ridiculous about that because...
Carrie McNulty (47:44)
Mm.
Susan Snow (47:55)
I'm like, I'm so grateful for the air today. You know what I mean? Like, I'm so grateful to watch the trees flow in the wind. Like, it doesn't matter what it is, but just, just...
Carrie McNulty (48:08)
No, just
framing it that way, framing it for your mind that way to turn towards and not in a toxic positivity way, but to turn towards what is good because there are some things that are good and we need to on those things, you know, just as much, if not more than the things that are
Susan Snow (48:16)
Right.
Yeah!
There's so much, yeah. And you're not
ignoring it, right? Like you know enough to educate yourself on what's going on, but you're not like diving head first into all that is negative
Carrie McNulty (48:32)
Yes.
Susan Snow (48:43)
you're not pretending and sitting in La La Land saying, you know, I'm just going to sit here and pretend that nothing is going on. You're just acknowledging that you can't just keep harping on the negative. And, you know, I talk a lot about the brain and how that works and
The brain cannot decipher between what you tell it as being real or not. And so if you're telling your brain all this negative stuff, then it's going to believe that that's the world you live in all the time. And you're going to not be able to see the positive things around you.
Carrie McNulty (49:29)
Well, right, both can exist at the same time too. think forgetting that there's dialectics all over the place. There could be things that are going on that are very hard to take in and also still things that are very good in the world. And you will feel more in your self energy, like you were saying, if you turn towards the things that are going well when you can, right? Still understanding you're human and giving yourself grace and if you got to have a meltdown, have a meltdown, do it.
Susan Snow (49:31)
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Yep.
Feel the feelings, man. You can't pretend
they don't exist. But move through it. Don't sit in it. Yeah. We don't, we don't need to go down the rabbit hole. that's a learned skill as well. but if you practice it, it, you know, it becomes easier to do.
Carrie McNulty (50:00)
and move through it. Don't stay there. Don't go to a hotel there. We don't need to stay. But, but...
Susan Snow (50:17)
I consider myself still healing, still moving forward, still evolving. but you're going to have bad days and you're going to have good days and that's okay. Right. That's okay. it's the times where you're feeling completely overwhelmed that, you know, it's important to talk to somebody, that can support you.
you know and but at the same time I just you know I think it's just important for people to take time for themselves and make themselves the priority. I know a lot of my friends you know they they do things for their kids and their kids only and I just tell them like when's the last time you checked in with yourself like when's the last time you did something nice for you.
Carrie McNulty (51:01)
Mm.
I have to tell you that as a therapist that primarily sees women, that's one of the things I repeat on a very regular basis.
Susan Snow (51:15)
on a daily.
Yeah, because I was one of them, you know, the people pleasing thing. And it took me many, many years to start be able to zoom out and see people for who they really were. To leave relationships that I didn't feel that was in my best interest to stay in. After my book came out, my mom decided to cut ties with me.
Carrie McNulty (51:20)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Susan Snow (51:43)
and I'm okay with that. Like I, for the first time in my life, I feel peaceful with not having the chaos and the toxicity around me. And, and so, ⁓ geez, yeah. Well, she's a narcissistic personality. So, but yeah, there could be a lot to talk about, but.
Carrie McNulty (51:46)
Thank
Mm-hmm.
I might need to come back to talk about that one if you're...
you
Susan Snow (52:10)
And you know, honestly, it took me 54 years to figure it out because as I was in the editing part of my book and rereading my book, I realized, holy cow, my relationship with her.
didn't start going south before my dad died, or right before my dad died. It had been a long ongoing thing. And I started to really dive in and look into covert narcissism to understand what the behaviors were and why they happened. Because even for my mother, like,
Carrie McNulty (52:34)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Snow (52:50)
and I talk about this in my book is that she lost her identity the night my dad died. And she stayed in victimhood and still is. And she gets mad at me because I tell the story, but I tell it in a different context.
Carrie McNulty (52:59)
forever.
Well you're not telling it about her. ⁓
Susan Snow (53:10)
No, I mean in this in the in the book
in the book I do you know part of the reason why she felt like I attacked her and I did not but in telling my story I had to tell her story because it was my experience out of the choices that she made right so
not one person that has read this book has said, my God, your mom's a monster she made her choices and she, you know, she chose alcohol for her coping skill and there's no judgment, none. We all deal with trauma differently, right? So there's no judgment in that. it's just,
what she chose and then my experience based on that choice and how it affected me as her kid. And that was it. Right, right. But she didn't like it. I, but you know, that's fine. I knew going into this writing the book, I had.
Carrie McNulty (54:08)
which you're excited to share because that's your story. Yeah.
Also,
say what your book is called. We haven't said that.
Susan Snow (54:25)
it's called The Other Side of the Gun, My Journey from Trauma to Resiliency. And it was born out of just the sheer idea to heal myself, but also to tell my story because for so many years, people had their perception of who I was and my belief system based on what
they would have felt if that was their experience. And I got to the point where I was like, it's time. Mentally, I'm at a point where I can do this. I have the tools to help me. And I thought, you know, I feel like people need to see who I am and they need to see that I am healing from this, that I
Carrie McNulty (55:05)
Mm.
Susan Snow (55:19)
hit the resiliency side of the healing and there was so much anger and pain in the law enforcement world around my dad's death and I felt like if they saw my story if they heard my message if they saw my healing that it would help them to heal as well and
the more I thought about it, I thought, well, it's not just law enforcement, it's anyone who has gone through anything in their life. And maybe my book and my message could change their life in some sort of way where they could connect with many different things that I talk about in my book.
As I was starting the process, there was still fear that came up for me, three different types of fear. One was my relationship with my mom was already dangling. And I thought the book could either end it or it can open a conversation.
the other person that it would affect, I felt like could be my husband because in 40 years we have gone through a lot together. And we're talking a man who was 19 at the time who could have high-tailed it out of there.
Carrie McNulty (56:40)
Yeah.
You guys were dating for three months, of course he could have hightailed it out.
Susan Snow (56:51)
Three months, he could have said, bye
bye, this is too much for me, but he didn't. And I'm grateful he didn't because, you know, I needed his friendship at that time. He, yes, he was the only rudder that I had. I was afraid that, you know, in talking about some of the issues that we had gone through that that might
Carrie McNulty (56:56)
⁓ Yeah.
I mean, he sounds like he was the one rudder that you had in this. Yeah.
Susan Snow (57:18)
bring up some old wounds for him. He too has PTSD. He went through everything with me from day one. He just didn't see what I saw, but he went through the trials with me, everything. So he's had experiences and he has PTSD as well.
Carrie McNulty (57:33)
you
Susan Snow (57:40)
The third fear was my safety. There were still two men that were incarcerated and I felt like, you know, putting myself out there doing podcasts, getting my book out there, was there going to be retaliation? And so I still had that fear in the back of my head.
When I really sat back and I checked in with myself, I said to myself, what is the true purpose behind this book? And the true purpose were those faceless people out there that needed to hear this message and that needed to hear hope because that's what I needed to hear at one point in my life. And...
So I wanted to show it to people. So every time my fear came up, I have a tagline, bulldoze your fear, because I did. I had to bulldoze right through it towards my purpose, towards the faceless people out there that needed to hear this message. So.
Carrie McNulty (58:35)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Snow (58:45)
It just allowed me to keep moving forward and keep doing it. there were days where I was like, I quit, that's it. But I didn't. And I think part of it is my dad was kicking me in the rear end to get it done.
Carrie McNulty (58:57)
Well, you know, in essence, you're telling part of his story too. And I think that's another connection to him that's pretty important. How did your brother take it? Are you close? Is he okay with the book? Is he okay?
Susan Snow (59:00)
Yes.
It is.
Yeah,
actually, yeah. he chose addiction as well. He is clean, has been for years, is doing fantastic. ⁓ I call him my Hercules because he's six foot two, like wall with feet. He's a big man, but he has been through hell in his life. And, you know, the fact that he's still on this earth is...
Carrie McNulty (59:27)
you
Susan Snow (59:36)
crazy, but grateful for it because he's an amazing human being. it took us probably eight years ago, we started healing our relationship. Because we just, you know, we're 10 years apart.
since he was going down those roads and making those choices in his life, and my mom was feeding my head full of the negative stuff about him, that I felt like it would be best to just not have a relationship with him. And which was not fair to either one of us. Exactly. And so
Carrie McNulty (1:00:07)
but that's narcissistic parents do.
Susan Snow (1:00:12)
about eight years ago we finally had the conversation three hours of conversation and realized that you know we can heal our relationship too
Carrie McNulty (1:00:23)
we don't go between. can have our own.
Susan Snow (1:00:25)
Yeah,
yeah, we're no longer single people on an island anymore, right? And we have each other and you know, he like I said, he's doing great. He's in his, his healing journey right now. And, you know, I'm very proud of him for that. He's very proud of me. He's come to book signings,
Carrie McNulty (1:00:30)
Yes.
Susan Snow (1:00:50)
I don't know if he's read the book, his wife read the book. If he never reads the book, that's fine. He has visceral reactions to extreme stress. And my fear is that the details of the description of that night might throw him into something. So if he never reads it, that's totally fine.
but he, knows about, knows the podcasts that I do. He listens to them and you know, I'm really, I think for everything that we've gone through that, I'm so proud of us. I'm so proud that we've able to rise above both of us, from it.
Carrie McNulty (1:01:21)
awesome.
Susan Snow (1:01:37)
and be able to do positive things in our life and enjoy life and you know.
Carrie McNulty (1:01:45)
Well,
and built something really worthwhile through your healing ⁓ that probably 17-year-old you never would have imagined.
Susan Snow (1:01:55)
Well, yeah, I mean, what I didn't, I never imagined being able to go back to that place and not have full on panic attack about to throw up, you know, emotions. However, the year that the book came out in 2023,
We went to Los Angeles I had a book signing and speaking engagement. And before we left, we went and visited dad at the cemetery. And as I was sitting there having a conversation with him, it popped into my head that I needed to go to the school.
Carrie McNulty (1:02:36)
Mm-hmm.
Susan Snow (1:02:38)
So I told my husband before we get on the plane, we need to go to the school. And he looked at me kind of like, what? And so LAPD had put placards on the streets where officers were killed in the line of duty. My dad's placard is in front of the school. It's not on the backside of the school. So I said, I want to go see the placard. And he said, all right.
Carrie McNulty (1:02:45)
Yeah. Okay.
Susan Snow (1:03:08)
And we went, I drove there and jumped out and found the placard and was able to take pictures of it and stand by it. And not one ounce of me was anxious. And my husband was like, what is happening? Like, what is happening? He expected me to be all kinds out of sort.
Carrie McNulty (1:03:25)
mmm
Susan Snow (1:03:36)
And again, as I was standing there looking at the placard, something in my head said, how far can you push this? So I said, you know, we're going to go one more place before we leave. And he was like, OK. And I was driving. We got in the car in the rental car and we drove up the street to the street that connects the front and the back side of the school.
And I started to turn right on that street. And he kind of looked at me like, what are you doing? And I said, give me a minute. And I turned onto the street where my dad was killed. And I went up the street, turned the car around and sat it and parked and started to just scribe everything that I saw that night to my husband.
Carrie McNulty (1:04:20)
Mm.
Susan Snow (1:04:29)
And again, not one ounce of me was anxious, wanting to throw up, shaking, nothing. I had such a deep calm come over me. I believe my dad was with me in that moment. And my husband just looked at me and we cried and we said, my God, we've come full circle. And I just was like, that to me,
Carrie McNulty (1:04:54)
That's amazing.
All
right, integrated trauma memory. All right, I'm gonna slow clap for that. That is a fully integrated trauma memory. It's no longer held fragmented, separate from your other memories. It has been integrated.
Susan Snow (1:05:08)
I, yeah,
so crazy that I never thought possible that that could happen. And, you know, my husband looked at me and he goes, that book did more for you than I don't, like, holy cow.
Carrie McNulty (1:05:16)
mmhmm
Susan Snow (1:05:25)
And you know, I, that's why when I talk to people, go, God, I can't believe like, you could just tell your story and it doesn't choke you up and it doesn't, you know, and I said, yeah, I can, because I don't look at it as like, it was this horrible thing that happened to me. For me personally, it was, I learned so much about myself.
in that experience. And so my purpose came from my father's death. And I tell people that, some people and they go, what? Wait a minute. And I tell them like, I'm not saying that because I want to pretend it didn't happen.
Carrie McNulty (1:06:17)
Right, right. And it's different because you're not saying you're grateful that that happened and that's not a gift that you were given. It just, it allowed you to eventually get to the place where you could be very authentic and also then share your healing with other people, which is something I'm your dad would have been very proud of, right?
Susan Snow (1:06:20)
No.
Right.
Absolutely,
yeah. And it gets back to that, you know, being present and giving people a safe space. I want to do for others that was done for me and I think it's important.
Because like you said, people want to be heard and they want to be understood and everybody deserves a safe space to do that. a lot of that too came from, know, I, when I talk to people about starting their healing journey and I hear, my gosh, it's terrifying to me to even think about it. But I tell them to think of it this way.
it's just like forgiving in a sense, because when you get to that point where you want to heal from whatever it is that hurt you or whoever it is that hurt you, you're literally taking your power back and you're telling that person or that thing, you can no longer hurt me.
I'm going to heal from this. I'm going to rise from this and you have no more power over me anymore. And when I say that to them, it's, it's like a light bulb turns on and they go, wait, I get my power back? Yes. Yes. Yes. ⁓
Carrie McNulty (1:07:54)
you
Yeah, I can have some air with me again in my life. Fantastic. Yeah.
Susan Snow (1:08:04)
So, you know, even like when I talk about forgiveness, it's the same thing. You are forgiving them, not for them, not forgetting what they did. What you're doing is you're telling them that you no longer have a hold over me and you are no longer powerful over me. I am taking my power back and I am forgiving you for me, not you.
So, you know, I feel like when I tell people that or when I talk to people about that, it really changes like you can. You can see the light bulb turn on and they're like, whoa.
people need to know that they have the power to heal from whatever it is that you've gone through.
You can do it. I don't have any special sauce. I, you know, I got smacked in the face with you are going to heal from this. So, you know.
Carrie McNulty (1:08:55)
Thank you.
Yeah,
mean, that's you can can only tuck things away for so long before they work their way back out to the surface. So.
Susan Snow (1:09:11)
Absolutely.
Yeah, compartmentalization is not healthy, folks.
Carrie McNulty (1:09:17)
It's not healthy, it's a necessity and our system does that in order to help us survive an acute situation. In the long term, it's not as beneficial ⁓ years down the line.
Susan Snow (1:09:25)
For sure.
yes. And I mean, you know, when I talked to law enforcement and first responders that they that's what they say to me. And, you know, and I even remember having conversations with my own father, who was great at compartmentalization. However, for it would come out in the weirdest ways. So
Carrie McNulty (1:09:45)
I bet.
Susan Snow (1:09:51)
Dad would be sitting there having a spaghetti dinner, and start to describe the dead guy that he found two days ago. And I'm like, dad, gross, stop talking about the dead guy. But because that was normal for him in his work environment or whatever, and then he'd come home and forget, yeah.
Carrie McNulty (1:10:04)
No, dad. No, thank you. Yeah. Can we just? Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
that he's so
dis-sensitized. Yeah.
Susan Snow (1:10:20)
The children
don't want to listen to me describe this man. ⁓ So he was funny like that, you know, and you just have to remind him, wrong audience.
Carrie McNulty (1:10:31)
Yeah,
appropriate for dinner. Nope. Nope.
Susan Snow (1:10:35)
wrong audience, dad,
wrong audience. yeah, and you know, and I've talked to, I've talked to retired police officers, a lot of them, and they believe that because they didn't take care of their mental health and they did do the compartmentalization, that it caused them to lose things, wives, children.
Carrie McNulty (1:11:00)
for sure.
⁓ yeah.
Susan Snow (1:11:02)
sobriety,
⁓ you name it. And now that they're retired, you know, now they're taking the time to unravel and unpack all the things that have happened over the years. And I've had conversations with retired police officers who have lost other police officers because they took their own life. you know, and so it really does bring it up to the forefront that
mental health is one of those things that we all, all of us need to stay in tune with. ⁓ you know, and I've heard it over and over again, you know, maybe I could have been a better husband, I could have been a dad, I could have been a better this, that if I had just taken care of my own mental health.
Carrie McNulty (1:11:37)
Nobody is immune to... Yeah.
Susan Snow (1:11:58)
and worked out all the things that I was feeling with the experiences that I had and the things that I saw. you know, again, getting back to we are human beings.
Carrie McNulty (1:12:14)
Yeah, it's not weak to struggle after seeing and experiencing trauma. It's not.
Susan Snow (1:12:19)
Right.
Yeah. And so, you know, I did talk to one cop who was like, the machismo thing has it's just a bunch of baloney. I'm like, okay. But he did, you know, he was just like, it's, it's done. Like, it should not be a part at all. And, and you're not weak for seeking help.
Carrie McNulty (1:12:29)
Bologna.
Exactly. Yeah.
Susan Snow (1:12:44)
In fact,
in fact, that's more powerful because what you're saying is that you want to work through these things so that you can do your job at a high level. You can show up for your kids. You can show up for your spouse.
Carrie McNulty (1:12:57)
You can be old, so...
Susan Snow (1:12:58)
I tell people also that healing from trauma is a, marathon. It's not a sprint. It's not something that you're going to go to three therapy sessions and be like, I'm all healed.
Carrie McNulty (1:13:10)
Yeah, certainly not. I always tell people if I had a magic wand, I certainly would use it. I would. ⁓ But it doesn't work.
Susan Snow (1:13:16)
right.
Doesn't work like that. you know, and that's too much expectation on yourself. And it's too much expectation on your therapist. So, you know, they're not miracle workers in that sense where they, know, like, yeah, you don't have a magic one, bippity boppity boo, and now you're all done. It's an ongoing, process.
Carrie McNulty (1:13:28)
Right, right.
Thank
Yeah, not therapy doesn't have to be forever, but your own will be ongoing. don't pressure yourself with the timeline. Most times people have been dealing with things for so, many years. And there's multiple layers to it that you might not even realize. So.
Susan Snow (1:13:44)
No.
Yeah.
Well,
and there may be a time where, you know, you've stopped therapy, but maybe down the road, something else happens and you need to have a check in, a checkup from the neck up kind of thing. Yeah. So, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that either. I believe therapy is great for every single solitary person that walks this planet.
Carrie McNulty (1:14:07)
too.
Susan Snow (1:14:19)
I feel more than anything that we just really need to be more in tune with ourselves and hold space when we're feeling a certain way and knowing that it's okay not to be okay.
Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's it's a journey. That's that's all I can call it is it's a journey.
Carrie McNulty (1:14:42)
Is there
anything that we didn't get to cover that you want to make sure that you convey to the people listening?
Susan Snow (1:14:49)
I always leave people with, you know, reiterating that you're not alone.
And you can heal. You can heal from whatever it is. And I know that the healing part is very scary. I don't candy coat it. The work that you have to do is going to be the hardest thing you've ever done in your life. But I will tell you getting to the other side of it is absolutely the most incredible feeling. And I just wish that for everyone who's listening.
to get to that place because it's a beautiful place.
Carrie McNulty (1:15:32)
Well, in your story, as you've said, shows people that that is possible. And sometimes that's all it takes is just hearing that somebody else has done it and that while it's scary, it's very worthwhile. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. ⁓
Susan Snow (1:15:42)
Yeah, it is.
Thank you for having me.
Carrie McNulty (1:15:51)
For everybody listening, in another couple of weeks, I'm gonna have another episode out for you. And until then, I hope that you will be well and take care of one another. And I will talk to you in another couple of weeks.
